I've lost all sympathy for street people

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

I remember a few years back one guy walked up to me and explained he was "from Toronto" and was trying to raise $$$ to fly his pregnant girlfriend home so she could be with family for when she had her baby...meanwhile she's about 20 feet away with her back turned to us, puffin on a cigarette. Either a) shes not pregnant, or b) shes a classy lass.

Anyways, I ran into the same guy about a week later, and this time he was "from Montreal" but with the same story...

There used to be a guy who seemed to get stranded right at the intersection of Glenmore and 5th every week on his way to BC. Talk about bad luck.

I hope he sued the city for building an interchange there, robbing him of his "home".

[Dion]

As the last bus came in tonight, I saw a few people who were glassy eyed and dealing with some sort of substance abuse- but I met a stream of guys who arranged for their wake-up calls. A temp agency will be here to pick them up at 3 am and 5 am. They have jobs shoveling snow. Their clothes are soaked from working today so staff will wash and dry piles of jeans and coats overnight. The staff tell me this is all the men have to wear when they leave first thing in the morning.

I know not everyone here has jobs. But 50 percent of them do - and they are certainly the people who stand out to me. I can’t help but notice them. I am drawn to them because they prove me wrong. I like when I learn things.. and tonight I have learned that there really are myths about homeless people. They do not choose to be here. They are not lazy.

http://www.greatcity.ca/blog/?cat=13&paged=2

5:30 am… Guys are rushing out for the bus to get to work. I am surprised at the hustle bustle this early in the morning. The men have lunches packed by the shelter… one sandwich inside a baggie. Most of them work construction - I think to myself they don’t have enough to eat for that type of work.

All of the men look frantic. They are not dawdling - they want to get on that bus. I remember the look from when I was a kid. Dad rushing out the door. We’ve all been there…trying to get to work on time… only these guys just slept on mats, haven’t had a shower and many will spend the day outside in the cold.

This is the strongest impression I have of my time at the shelter. The look in these mens’ eyes. The determination they have to get to work. Just like everyone else in Calgary this morning.

http://www.greatcity.ca/blog/?cat=13

Maybe I shouldn’t admit this! I almost fell asleep tonight during our news. It was during a commercial near the end of the show. I put my head in my hands and thought “I’ll just close my eyes for one little second” . When our floor manager yelled out “30-seconds” (until news begins again).. his voice startled me. I’d gone all the way to that state right before you fall sleep.

I was at the shelter Tuesday night.. it’s now Thursday and I’m still not back to full speed. While trying to drag my butt out of bed this morning I thought of the people I met on Tuesday; Al… the lady who talked too fast who is also 44… the pregnant girl who’s addicted… and all those men and women who had to get up early and go to work. They woke up exhausted at the shelter again this morning. They didn’t get a break. They didn’t get to go home and crawl into a firm, warm bed that actually has a pillow.

People often say “why don’t they just do something, and change their lives”. Being this tired today, it became clear to me that if I were homeless, I would not have the energy to turn my life around. I would not have what it would take to get myself out of the rut. Many people ask me where I get all my energy from. I finally know how to answer that question. I have energy because I always get a good nights sleep.

http://www.greatcity.ca/blog/?cat=13

[transplant99]

This is and always has been a tough issue.

I have to believe that the majority of homeless would not be there if they could help it.

however, there most certainly are those that are more than capable of working and dont because they choose not to. They deserve nothing from anybody.

The problem is sorting the deserving from the bad apples.

Likely an issue that will never be resolved to the gratification of all involved.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by driveway

This is what's troubling about your statements. The fact that you are making generalizations and lumping each and every homeless or disadvantaged person into a group and then identifying them as "those people". In essence what you are doing is denying them individuality and humanity - it's exactly the same thing as racism. I understand that you've had frustrating experiences - and it's entirely within your right to stop offering money or opportunities to people if you choose too. However, making blanket statements about a large group of people - any large group of people - is both logically and ethically flawed.

You know what, there is nothing wrong about lumping a group of similar people together for the sake of convenience. Was I supposed to say "yeah so regarding the homeless problem in Calgary, specifically Jim, Andy, Trisha, Deb, Brent..." until I was done with the hundreds of people you want to have recognized for their individuality that I don't even know? Honestly, that's ridiculous.

There is nothing unethical or illogical about my opinions on homelessness and comparing it to racism is a total stretch.

[maverickeastwood]

All homeless people aren't the same, there are many different kinds.
-The unemployable, drug addicted alcoholic
-The physically or mentally disabled
-The sloth/lazy bum who doesn't want to play the game we all do.

The list goes on, but the one type that gets me is the lazy/sloth type. There was an informal survey done not too long ago that polled some of the homeless downtown. What they found was that a sizeable percentage (can't remember the numbers) are on the street because they don't want to deal with the strict schedules, bosses at a job, mortgage payments, landlords, the tax man, basically what "upstanding individuals" deal with. This type is a total waste of space and oxygen and should be shipped off. These ones are capable of working, they just don't want to.

BC already had to deal with some of AB homeless, maybe ON could use some. Get those greyhound bus tickets ready.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by DESS

You know what, there is nothing wrong about lumping a group of similar people together for the sake of convenience.

Exactly. I'm a big fan of vast generalizations. It saves me so much time. I don't have to waste time getting to know people. Categorizing people is easier for me and the people being categorized. That way I can treat them all the same way. Now thats equality!

[DESS]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

Exactly. I'm a big fan of vast generalizations. It saves me so much time. I don't have to waste time getting to know people. Categorizing people is easier for me and the people being categorized. That way I can treat them all the same way. Now thats equality!

Okay, so what's the alternative? I'd love to hear how you would discuss this issue without categorizing this category of people.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Dion

http://www.greatcity.ca/blog/?cat=13&paged=2



http://www.greatcity.ca/blog/?cat=13



http://www.greatcity.ca/blog/?cat=13

These were great articles written by Barb Higgins. I have her blog bookmarked, love reading her take on things. I don't think anyone in Calgary is better than Barb Higgins for bringing humanity into any situation. But I think there is a big difference here with the working poor compared to many who just sit on the streets begging for money.

There is a contingent of street people who will never be employable, around 40%, certainly not 90% as some are claiming.

Around early November, our first cold snap, when the amount of beds available is never sufficient for the people who need them, I heard a great interview. It was with the mayors of 3 American cities, New York was one, I forget the other 2 cities. Anyhow, they were asked how they have addressed their homeless situation. New York in particular has made big strides in addressing that issue.

They all said the key was in empowering the people on the streets, not just building more shelters, opening more food banks, forming more agencies to deal with people on the streets. They said if you provide all those services, they will always come and you will need to build more and you will be perpetuating a cycle and viscious circle that is ever spiralling upwards. They were not advocating closing all the shelters and stopping various services, they were merely saying that alternatives have to be present.

When asked how to empower them, they said one of the keys is building affordable housing for them because when they are in something of their own, you usually empower them with pride, something most street people are lacking. And without a house over their head, they are nobodies, they lack identities, they can not be reached by telephone, they don't even have sufficient documentation such as drivers licenses, health cards, whatever. If we did not see them on the streets, it is like they do not even exist.

[Flashpoint]

I recall a homeless guy in our home town. Us kids used to torment him something awful because he was a crazy street person.

I found out later who he was. Turns out he was college professor who was driving into work one day with his wife and two kids. A drunk driver hit them and killed everyone in his family. This was the early 80's, so depression wasn't all that accepted in society. The guy lost everything, and used alcohol to self medicate.

I felt pretty bad even though it was years later. Maybe something to keep in mind if you go out of your way to be sh--ty to someone on the street. I just say "no change" and move on. Odds are they don't have a similar tale of woe, but you never know.


That said, if we didn't have $1 and $2 coins, you probably wouldn't see as many panhandlers. A lot harder to pull in $20 from people's pocket change when you are dealing with dimes and pennies instead of loonies and toonies.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

A friend of mine once had a homeless guy approach him with a box of sandwiches, asking him to buy one because he was sooooo hungry.

[burn_baby_burn]

I remember seeing a documentary on tv about homeless people in Calgary. If memory serves it would have been in the early to mid 90's. Does anybody else here know what I'm talking about?

One guy was a middle aged alcoholic who was a geologist for an oil company at one time. Gave the career and his family up for the booze. Another guy was a genius and had $70,000 in the bank. He thought the rest of society was crazy.

I wish I could remember the name of it because I would like to watch it again.

[Hakan]

Suspicions confirmed:

1. Anecdotal evidence is proof that the 'majority' of homeless people are just lazy.

2. Anecdotal evidence also proves that the addicted chose to be that way.

3. It's okay to treat homeless people like crap because you are an upstanding person.

Calgarypuck helps sort out the lies, ignorance and ethics of disadvantaged people.

[Alpha_Q]

All of the homeless people in this city, hell in this country, were once just regular people like you or I and just decided one day to be lazy bums. As long as our society keeps pushing such garbage like ‘mental disease’ ‘addiction’ ‘divorce’ and the biggest myth of all – thy myth of child abuse, we will continue to feel sympathy for this pack of fraudsters. There has never been a single child abused in this country - don’t believe what you might hear in the media. NO ONE suffers depression, there is no such thing as schizophrenia, every single homeless person, all of whom once lived in a 2 parent household full of love and support, decided one day to get up and leave their parents, leave their family, abandon their computers, their cars, their season tickets, their everything, to live on the street and beg for money.

[jamesteterenko]

The last time I gave money to a begger, I saw him drinking a Sleeman's beer on the street about 15 minutes later. It wasn't even cheap booze! He was about to ask me for money but quickly realized that he had already hit me up and turned away. That was probably six years ago. Now, I'll donate money and time to organizations such as the Mustard Seed.

I recommend that anyone reading this go spend a few hours serving a meal at the Mustard Seed. Talk to the people coming for a meal. Say hello, smile at them. Then talk to the staff. You'll learn a lot more about why people are there than you will in the idle speculation of an internet forum.

[jar_e]

Calgary SUN had an interesting "series" on a homeless fellow named Josh. Its an interesting look into homelessness (albeit one person).

Also, and not trying to stir the pot or be a devil's advocate but I'm looking for a genuine answer. There is no mind that mental illness combined with addiction becomes a dangerous and detrimental lifestyle...however, there are a LOT of people (dare I say more than homeless) who deal with one or both of those conditions and seem to live somewhat functioning lives. I've known mentally handicap citizens who still work (albeit minimum wage jobs) and are able to "live" life. I also have known people who have been drug addicts and again...they still work and are able to "live."

So where do we draw the line? I'm going to put a strong guess that there are more people with mental illness and/or addiction problems working and with a home than homeless and jobless. There has to be another factor. Whether its laziness, the inability to accept change (though one could argue that its an irrelevant point since they would most likely of had to change to the street lifestyle at some point), family issues, history of abuse, etc. I know there are extremes like BBB's and flashpoint's example...however, and unfortunately, those are the minority of the stories out there.

I'm not trying to come across as arrogant or ignorant. In my defense, I've had the ability to do quite a bit with homelessness through work and have been able to witness it on many levels.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by redforever

These were great articles written by Barb Higgins. I have her blog bookmarked, love reading her take on things. I don't think anyone in Calgary is better than Barb Higgins for bringing humanity into any situation. But I think there is a big difference here with the working poor compared to many who just sit on the streets begging for money.

There is a contingent of street people who will never be employable, around 40%, certainly not 90% as some are claiming.

Around early November, our first cold snap, when the amount of beds available is never sufficient for the people who need them, I heard a great interview. It was with the mayors of 3 American cities, New York was one, I forget the other 2 cities. Anyhow, they were asked how they have addressed their homeless situation. New York in particular has made big strides in addressing that issue.

They all said the key was in empowering the people on the streets, not just building more shelters, opening more food banks, forming more agencies to deal with people on the streets. They said if you provide all those services, they will always come and you will need to build more and you will be perpetuating a cycle and viscious circle that is ever spiralling upwards. They were not advocating closing all the shelters and stopping various services, they were merely saying that alternatives have to be present.

When asked how to empower them, they said one of the keys is building affordable housing for them because when they are in something of their own, you usually empower them with pride, something most street people are lacking. And without a house over their head, they are nobodies, they lack identities, they can not be reached by telephone, they don't even have sufficient documentation such as drivers licenses, health cards, whatever. If we did not see them on the streets, it is like they do not even exist.

Just to clear things up, I did not claim that 90% were unemployable, but that 90% suffer from mental illness.

Anyways, here is a paper from a fairly valid source: http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/li...alencehomeless

Quote from said paper: "Approximately 86% of homeless persons have a lifetime diagnosis of either mental illness or substance abuse"

[PowerPlayoffs06]

This thread has my Sarcast-O-Meter©® going off the charts.

Living in surburbia all my life I've never really dealt with homeless folks. It was always sort of surreal when I was younger and would go downtown and see people actually living on the streets. Even more-so when I took a trip to Vancouver and went shopping on Granville and saw all the young street kids. I feel awkward when I see homeless folks. Like I should feel guilty, but don't. I dunno.

Now it's time to leave for the weekend from my full time job and drive to my warm, sheltered home.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by jamesteterenko

The last time I gave money to a begger, I saw him drinking a Sleeman's beer on the street about 15 minutes later. It wasn't even cheap booze! He was about to ask me for money but quickly realized that he had already hit me up and turned away. That was probably six years ago. Now, I'll donate money and time to organizations such as the Mustard Seed.

I recommend that anyone reading this go spend a few hours serving a meal at the Mustard Seed. Talk to the people coming for a meal. Say hello, smile at them. Then talk to the staff. You'll learn a lot more about why people are there than you will in the idle speculation of an internet forum.

I can't speak for everybody else, but my experience comes from first-hand interaction with these people. And IMO why they are there is less important than what they are doing to get out of there.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Boy. Some ugly comments in this thread. A lot of posters so far come across to me (and, I would think, to most outside observers) as likely being arrogant and ignorant; coming from privileged backgrounds with healthy families, who were given plenty of opportunities to succeed, and simply don't care to try to understand how the other half lives.

I don't think a lot of people on this board understand what it's like to grow up in a household with an alcoholic (and usually absent) father and a heroin-addicted mother - parents who've kicked you out on the street when you were 14 or so, or who effectively got you involved in the drug world when you were a kid, or who sexually abused you. And I doubt most people posting here understand just how bad things can be when you find yourself unloved by anyone, alone, poor, and living in a situation where you can't see a way out. Some of the people you're criticizing deserve credit for at least one thing - they haven't committed suicide in circumstances where a lot of people would have done. A lot of the people you're describing have never been given any reason to hope for anything better in their lives, and it's a minor miracle they've held on to what they've got.

In fact, the number of people you're talking about who are homeless or poor because they have a mental illness is actually very small. The number of people who have a mental illness because they're homeless or poor on the other hand, is much larger.

There are, among this population, an exceptional sub-group who are, in fact, making a lifestyle choice. For them, I have no sympathy.

But seriously, the blanket statements... yeesh...

Don't bring this crap into the thread. You heard the other posters, if people have arms and legs that work, there is no reason for them to not be working.

pffft, growing up in abusive family's, being thrown on the street with no loved one's and no hope, what junk, everyone should be emotionaless robots and just work.

/sarcasm

[CaptainCrunch]

I think losing sympathy is a really wrong term for this. I think deep down you always feel sympthy for someone in a bad spot.

I think the proper term is jaded.