C'mon England!!!

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Locke

We all know that pain Kage. It came down to a nailbiter and England, not only couldnt put it away, they couldnt even hold on to the draw.

Where was the Defence? And Goalkeeping has been brutal for them all campaign.

I dont even know where to start. Carson FFS. Like I said before the match, play James (or even Robinson) cause they know what is on the line. They know what its like to F up in a big match. They would know what thats like and do all they could to prevent it. Well now, we've got another shthead who knows what its like.

And what else I cant believe is how obvious it seemed not to have Crouch alone. I mean if us, a bunch of idiot fans, can see having him alone wont work how in the F does the manager of England not see it? Its disgraceful. If that twat had started Defoe and Beckham I cant believe that we would have been down 2-0 at the half.

AND as soon as we pulled level they started backing off! Shades of Sven, no question. Keep playing for the win ffs. They back off and what happens? Big shock. UGH.

[Jagger]

Crouch NEEDS somebody to knock the ball down/on to. That is the most obvious statement in the world. Why can't the professional paid manager see that. Defoe should have been on from the start.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Jagger

Crouch NEEDS somebody to knock the ball down/on to. That is the most obvious statement in the world. Why can't the professional paid manager see that. Defoe should have been on from the start.

As I see it, McClaren had two options:

A) Crouch with Defoe
B) Crouch with Beckham

How that moron chose NEITHER is just shocking! What happens when Crouch gets the service he needs from Beckham? GOAL. IDIOT.

And McClaren said after the match he wont resign. Hey Steve, Ive got your severance right here pal.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

As I see it, McClaren had two options:

A) Crouch with Defoe
B) Crouch with Beckham

How that moron chose NEITHER is just shocking! What happens when Crouch gets the service he needs from Beckham? GOAL. IDIOT.

And McClaren said after the match he wont resign. Hey Steve, Ive got your severance right here pal.

Exactly. Peter Crouch is a great player (said as a true Red Blooded Liverpool fan) but he needs service. His quality comes from finishing. Beckham provides the best service in the game, even Gerrard cant compare.

McLaren will not be given the option to resign. He will be sacked, for sure. No coach gets away with not even qualifying for the Euro.

The Euro is a warm-up for the World Cup, if you cant even qualify for the Euro, what in Hell makes you think that The English Football Association is gonna let you stay to try and qualify for the World Cup?

Not a chance in hell.

Watch for tomorrow's press conference.

Excuse #1: We were missing so many key players (Owen, Rooney).

[Jagger]

McClaren never should have been hired in the first place. It was oh so obvious that it was all going to end in pain. The man doesn't have a clue. Sven messed up and McClaren was his right hand man. The idiot's at the English FA don't have a clue either. It's shocking really. They felt that they had to hire an Englishman I guess. Well, if that was the case, then there were much better options out there. Personally I think that there were a couple of excellent foreign candidates that would have fit the bill. One of them is taking his team to the Euro at the expense of England.

Bye bye McClaren. You won't be missed.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Locke

Exactly. Peter Crouch is a great player (said as a true Red Blooded Liverpool fan) but he needs service. His quality comes from finishing. Beckham provides the best service in the game, even Gerrard cant compare.

McLaren will not be given the option to resign. He will be sacked, for sure. No coach gets away with not even qualifying for the Euro.

The Euro is a warm-up for the World Cup, if you cant even qualify for the Euro, what in Hell makes you think that The English Football Association is gonna let you stay to try and qualify for the World Cup?

Not a chance in hell.

Watch for tomorrow's press conference.

Excuse #1: We were missing so many key players (Owen, Rooney).

Yeah, there's no way the FA holds an emergency meeting without McClaren being tossed. (After facing the media hoardes)

I would almost say the opposite about the World Cup. To me, the Euro Cup is the most exciting football tournament going... I mean, look at the 16 teams... who is a weak team there aside from the hosts? Any of those 14 teams could be seen getting past a World Cup group stage. Those are all going to be outstanding games.

To me, the World Cup is too watered down in the group stage... too many lousy teams from Asia, Africa, North America, and even the odd weak sister from South America. If you see a group with Germany, Poland, Angola and Canada, for example... you know exactly who is going through unless there is a major upset, or bribed referees (see: South Korea at WC2002). (I know... bad example, Canada will never make the World Cup again, unless they host it)

However, you are right that from a European standpoint, the World Cup is tougher to qualify for. If you can't be one of the best 16 in the Euro, good luck being the top 13 for WC.

Single striker systems are always doomed to failure unless your midfield service is outstanding, particularly, your wingers. That simply wasn't the case for England until Beckham came in. Personally, I hate the single striker system (especially having played as the single striker more than once), and find its probably the easiest to defend against.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Jagger

McClaren never should have been hired in the first place. It was oh so obvious that it was all going to end in pain. The man doesn't have a clue. Sven messed up and McClaren was his right hand man. The idiot's at the English FA don't have a clue either. It's shocking really. They felt that they had to hire an Englishman I guess. Well, if that was the case, then there were much better options out there. Personally I think that there were a couple of excellent foreign candidates that would have fit the bill. One of them is taking his team to the Euro at the expense of England.

Bye bye McClaren. You won't be missed.

Looking back I don't think Sven messed up.

3 consecutive QFs in major tournaments isn't too shabby. That's realistically where England are. Around 10th best in the world and 7th best in europe.

Is there any manager that could take this England squad to a major semifinal?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Looking back I don't think Sven messed up.

3 consecutive QFs in major tournaments isn't too shabby. That's realistically where England are. Around 10th best in the world and 7th best in europe.

Is there any manager that could take this England squad to a major semifinal?

Sven may not have, but I think this is one of the most talented England rosters in a long time. So, yes I believe they could have made it to a major semi-final.

The fact is, the couldnt even qualify. Why?

1. Shoddy goaltending throughout the entire campaign.
2. Sloppy defense.
3. Poor organization of the midfield to forward combinations.

Honestly, this England team has midfield talent equal to any other team in Euro qualifying at least, and their defense and strikers find domestic success but cant translate that for Queen and Country. The issue is that if they rely on those midfield to get it to their strikers to score then they have to play a good system and pick those midfielders accordingly.

See David Beckham to Peter Crouch. Point in case. Midfield service to striking talent.

If they want the midfield to score then they have to play the appropriate formation. If the midfield is being used primarily in defense, then they cant be expected to push up and score, they have to provide service and support to maintain the formation and defensive security.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Looking back I don't think Sven messed up.

I humbly disagree. England rarely looked confident under his regime. The play was lacklustre at best and they were actually fairly lucky to make it as far as they did in some of the tournaments. Taking only one additional striker to the World Cup, and that an unproven teenager was a HUGE mistake and that was where he really messed up. Sure I will agree that he was better than McClaren but that's not saying much. Sorry I was never a huge fan of Sven's and his lack of tactics.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Jagger

I humbly disagree. England rarely looked confident under his regime. The play was lacklustre at best and they were actually fairly lucky to make it as far as they did in some of the tournaments. Taking only one additional striker to the World Cup, and that an unproven teenager was a HUGE mistake and that was where he really messed up. Sure I will agree that he was better than McClaren but that's not saying much. Sorry I was never a huge fan of Sven's and his lack of tactics.

England never look confident under any regime! Keegan? Hoddle? Venables?
Sven was very conservative and made the English somewhat boring but he did produce results.

[Thunderball]

No surprises here... McClaren dismissed along with Assistant Coach Terry Venables by unanimous decision of the English FA.

source http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=489149

[troutman]

Is it too easy to just blame the managers? Maybe England needs to recognize that many European nations have caught or surpassed them in talent. Maybe they need to over-haul the Premiership (too many foreigners). Have the players become soft? They are mega-celebrities in England. These are some of the comments I heard from fans on the BBC last night.

[Jagger]

For the long term future of the England team McClaren's dismissal is a very good thing. If they had fluked their way to the Euro finals we may have been saddled with that joker until around the South African World cup (either before or after depending on qualification).

As for his successor, that is tough to say. I don't believe that nationality should be a concern at all. They do need a clean start with entirely new people on the coaching staff.

Arguably one problem that plaques the fabric of English football now and the fortunes of the national team is the influx of foreign players into the Premiership. Arsenal, for example, regularly field a team without any English players, Liverpool field only two regularly. That means that it's difficult to develop top class English talent at the very highest level. A number of English professionals have brought up this argument. What do you guys think? Should there, and legally can there be, some sort of cap on the number of foreign players allowed in an English team?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

Is it too easy to just blame the managers? Maybe England needs to recognize that many European nations have caught or surpassed them in talent. Maybe they need to over-haul the Premiership (too many foreigners). Have the players become soft? They are mega-celebrities in England. These are some of the comments I heard from fans on the BBC last night.

All very valid points.

As a non-England football supporter who watches EPL and the English NT, I think the problem is both simple to see, and difficult to remedy.

-First, the Premiership is far too reliant on foreigners. For every Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney, there's a Drogba, Fabregas and C. Ronaldo. Look at Spain and Italy... every major team (except Inter) boasts numerous stars and talented youth from their home country. England has to put emphasis on raising talented youth from their youth teams all the way up.

-Second, England breaks the KISS rule every time I see them play. They aren't Brazil (English fans want to be though and therein lies the problem)... they can't lob sweet 50 ft. passes and try to cool deke their way through. They also aren't Italy and can't play the frustrating cat-and-mouse counter-attacking defense game. English footballers just aren't that way. England needs to stick with what works for them, and cultivate players that suit that identity. Keep it simple, stupid!

-Third, they have to stop reading their press clippings. Beckham is not the greatest midfielder ever. Owen and Rooney are not the top forwards in the world, Carson, Robinson and the lacklustre goaltending depth would not be starters in any major global club, nor should they ever be the best goaltending options available, and frankly, the Premiership is not the hands-down best league in the world either. Perhaps, some of these English stars should play in non-English clubs to escape some of the boosterism. Lampard is apparently desperate to reunite with Ranieri in Juventus, and that might be the best thing for his career. A little jolt of Italian tactical prowess might be what Lamps needs to elevate his, and England's game. Beckham seems to have benefitted from playing with Capello in Spain as well.

-Fourth... to be fair, England's talent is very watered down because the UK (with 60 million people) is essentially fielding four teams. Not even Brazil could do that and be a perennial powerhouse. Perhaps its time to consider merging. Scotland has some players that would easily slot into the English NT (Gordon, Ferguson and Hutton come to mind right away), and come without hype or celebrity. (Of course, Scotland/England animosity puts most rivalries to shame, but perhaps the sting of watching from the sidelines is worse). I'm actually surprised FIFA allows the United Kingdom to have 4 teams in the first place. It would be like the IIHF allowing Canada to send Team Quebec, Team Ontario, Team Western Canada and Team Atlantic Canada.

-Lastly... they need a coach whose personality is above the players, the media and any other BS. I think England needs "The Special One," Jose Mourinho, to take over. His own ego will drown out the others, and his tactical mind and winning edge will not allow lacklustre performances like the Euro 2008 qualifiers.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sven may not have, but I think this is one of the most talented England rosters in a long time. So, yes I believe they could have made it to a major semi-final.

The fact is, the couldnt even qualify. Why?

1. Shoddy goaltending throughout the entire campaign.
2. Sloppy defense.
3. Poor organization of the midfield to forward combinations.

Honestly, this England team has midfield talent equal to any other team in Euro qualifying at least, and their defense and strikers find domestic success but cant translate that for Queen and Country. The issue is that if they rely on those midfield to get it to their strikers to score then they have to play a good system and pick those midfielders accordingly.

See David Beckham to Peter Crouch. Point in case. Midfield service to striking talent.

If they want the midfield to score then they have to play the appropriate formation. If the midfield is being used primarily in defense, then they cant be expected to push up and score, they have to provide service and support to maintain the formation and defensive security.

I agree with your points. I'm amazed at how often they have inferior goaltending. I was thinking that in the past when I've watched them their talent level looked to be lacking. Now when they have a full squad I don't see that as a problem anymore. I think the injuries/lack of depth killed them. It killed them because despite the goaltending and defense their midfield and strikers were good enough to get them through. All fairly meaningless anyway as they weren't going to win without further improvement.

This could benefit the team in the long run if they identify those weaknesses and look to correct them.

[Hakan]

Ha Ha

The Toronto Maple Leafs of international soccer flame out AGAIN. What a surprise.

England is seriously the most-hyped team that consistently chokes on the bone. Good riddance, Euro will be a way better tournament without those jokers and the media tidal wave that follows them.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Ha Ha

The Toronto Maple Leafs of international soccer flame out AGAIN. What a surprise.

England is seriously the most-hyped team that consistently chokes on the bone. Good riddance, Euro will be a way better tournament without those jokers and the media tidal wave that follows them.

I have made the comparison before too. I enjoyed yesterday, but did not want to rub it in too much - a lot of people were really hurting.

[Hakan]

People really hurting? You'd think they'd be used to it by now?

England fans didn't really think they'd qualify after the terrible beginning to the qualifiers did they?

So sick of that team it ain't funny. And my heritage is 100% UKish.

[troutman]

I thought it would be sporting to resist piling on for 24 hours.

I was in London a few years ago when they lost a game to France. The pre-game hype was astronomical. Afterwards, a city of 10 million was dead quiet.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by Hakan

People really hurting? You'd think they'd be used to it by now?

England fans didn't really think they'd qualify after the terrible beginning to the qualifiers did they?

So sick of that team it ain't funny. And my heritage is 100% UKish.

Nah, I'm not hurting. Being English it is to be expected that the English team will suck when the chips are down. They really are an over-hyped joke. I know many many Liverpool fans who do not give a darn about the national team; they just want the likes of Gerrard etc. to come back without an injury.

After saying that, of course I 'want' the national team to do well. I fully support them when they play. I just don't expect too much, it's better that way.

I expected more posters like you and troutman to have a field day with this one. Nice of you to hold back!

Personally I'm just happy the international break is over. Now back to supporting my main team. Hopefully Gerrard and Crouch can get over this one quickly. Hey, but at least they didn't get injured!