C-Train Rant Thread

[urban1]

My big complaint is more against the system than the riders.

I chose to live near the inner city so that I wouldnt have to drive every where, could walk a lot of places and take transit when convenient.

The problem is that transit is now never convenient. I live TOO close to the innercity that by the time the train (or bus) gets to my nearest stop, its almost impossible to get on. Then you get angry suburbanites who dont want to squeeze to make extra room who tell you to wait for the next train. Well, 3 trains have already gone by so Im getting on this one!

The problem is that Calgary Transit added new stop further to the south but never increased the capacity of the trains. Add the commuters from the bedroom communities who drive to the train stations and youve got trains that are way over capacity. Same thing goes for the buses.

The city needs better planning. Why encourage suburban sprawl by improving transit to the bedroom communities? If anything, make the developers pay for the transit to new communities. Anyways, thats a whole other rant.

Calgarians also need to realize your personal space while on a train or bus is getting a lot smaller than it was a few years ago. Ive lived in Toronto and Montreal and travelled a lot and the density of people packed onto transit is a lot higher that here.
I cant believe the bus drivers in this town who still wont let people stand in front of the yellow line. Fock! Its minus 30, theres twenty or more people waiting at the bus stop and you wont let on more people because theyd be past the yellow line. Dude, you dont drive the bus in a small hick town no more.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Mats made his feelings pretty clear in the thread on the subject.

Thanks Bobblehead, didn't read through that whole thread.

[JohnnyB]

Calgary's public transit is quite deplorably bad. The C-trains are awful. Comparing it to a system like the skytrain shows how underdeveloped it is, and I even think the skytrain is pretty mediocre after Taipei's MRT.

As Calgary develops it really needs to put more emphasis on public transit. Getting anywhere by bus/train takes forever in Calgary. If you're living in a suburb there is a huge disincentive to using public transit in Calgary. It's just awful.

[MatsNaslund]

p.s. in no way am I trying to allude to the fact that Mats was the driver of that train.

No, it was another driver and btw he was back at work the very next day. I remember waving to him the day after. Different people deal with stuff differently. Some go on stress leave and some just need a few days off. Some never drive c-train again. Others like this guy are back at the job the very next day.

[MatsNaslund]

I cant believe the bus drivers in this town who still wont let people stand in front of the yellow line. Fock! Its minus 30,

Having driven a bus for a few years before coming on c-train I can tell you that there's a reason for this rule. It is a rule of the City (Calgary Transit) and is enforceable by the City's Transit Bylaw 4M81. Buses have a limit for people. The limit is as many people as can move back from the yellow line. If people are refusing to move back then that bus is considered 'overloaded'. All the driver does is call it in on the radio along with bus #, route, key #, badge # and that info is entered into the computer along with time and location and direction. The scheduling department gets all the info on which buses are overloaded or not. Its up to them to make changes if they want. They also periodically do `count cards` of every route at all times of day. If there is a genuine need for another bus on a specific route they will add it over the course of time.

Once a bus is overloaded it is not required to stop anywhere except where somoene rings a bell and is only to do drop off. It is to put 'out of service' and/or 'next bus please' on the sign and not pick up any additional people. Pickups can resume after enough people have gotten off the bus that it is only a standing load or sometimes the bus is told by radio control to carry on with drop offs until they are empty. In that case they end up starting back in service in another location and usually far away from wherever they go empty.

Bus drivers don't do this because it makes them feel good. They do it for the reason of safety. You have to understand that the bus driver is personally responsible for the safety of whoever is on the bus that he or she is driving. It is the same thing on the c-train. For example if I as a bus driver let you on near the dash way past the yellow line, what will happen when a little car jumps in front of me without signaling or enough distance is that I will have to slam the brakes. Braking distance in a bus (which is 11 or 12 tonnes when empty) is a little different then brakes on a car. Anyone over the yellow line will likely end up through the windshield. The city would probably be sued as would the bus driver. The bus driver is only protecting the public and also covering his own butt legally in any case anything happens.

Most people are reasonable and will move back as much as possible but there's always someone that insists on standing in the doorway, in the steps or right next to the dash. Some bus drivers are weak willed and give in to such individuals. I personally don't believe in compromising on SAFETY. If someone didn't accept the yellow line rule, what I used to do was turn off the bus and walk outside after calling it in on the radio that I need police to remove the individual from the bus. It only happened a few times but in each case the individual recieved a ticket under the rarely enforced Transit Bylaw.

[Byrns]

The only problem I have with the city buses is people who insist on bringing on their massive strollers on during rush hour. Some mornings there are as many as 3 of these monstrosities! I also hate the punk kids who make themselves wide as possible so people will skip past them. I make a point of making them slide their emo ass over.

[J pold]

People who are afraid of the aisle and just stand and allow the open parts by the door to fill up, move down the aisle its not going to kill you

Or people on a packed train that for some reason start making there bolt for the door 2 stops before they have to get off, just wait till the train stops at your stop say "please grab the door" and people will get off of the train make room and let you off instead of you trying to elbow past everyone to get to the door before it opens

[GrrlGoalie33]

Two beefs of mine...the people that feel the need to sit their big a$$ down on you when they sit beside you. I leave plenty of room for you on the seat beside me...my lap is for my backpack, not you.

When you are walking through the station doors, take a tenth of a second to look and see if anyone is behind you before you let the door slam in my face. I always push/hold the door if there is someone right behind me.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by J pold

People who are afraid of the isles and just stand and allow the open parts by the door to fill up, move down the isle its not going to kill you

Or people on a packed train that for some reason start making there bolt for the door 2 stops before they have to get off, just wait till the train stops at your stop say please grab the door people will off of the train make room and let you off instead of you trying to elbow past everyone to get to the door before it opens

That second part is tough to read. (and isle = small island; aisle = a path between seats)

[J pold]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

(and isle = small island; aisle = a path between seats)

What this isn’t a rant about people on a small islands?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by J pold

What this isn’t a rant about people on a small islands?

I thought for a minute you might not like the Islanders.

[ken0042]

Here's my thoughts on the 4 car trains. Perhaps somebody in the know could let me know if this is realistic. I'll use the south LRT line as an example; as I'm familiar with that line.

As it stands IIRC the following stations can accomidate 4 cars: Sommerset through Canyon Meadows, and the Downtown stations closest to Centre street. (On on either side of 7th ave.)

Why not add that 4th car, and make it an "express" car. Meaning heading north it will make the first 4 stops, and then until it hits downtown the 4th car will not have its doors open; as it won't be lined up with a platform. All of a sudden you have added an extra 33% to the C-train capacity. As well, you also get rid of a major problem; I know southbound at Centre Street there's always a wall of people wanting on, but no room on the train. All of a sudden you have a brand new empty car for those people to board.

Yeah, there will be the odd person who didn't read the signs on that car that it is now an express car. But like the Vulcans say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[Barnes]

I think when a driver flips the switch to allow doors to open, they pick the side. Not sure they can pick the car as well.

[MatsNaslund]

I think when a driver flips the switch to allow doors to open, they pick the side. Not sure they can pick the car as well.

Either all 12 doors on each side on a 3 car train can be opened or the door immediately next to the driving end on the side that the doorbank switch is activated.


To close door banks on one car what has to happen is the driver has to get out and do it manually. In the SD160s it involves shutting off breakers in each cab (each end) of the car. In the old U2's it is a different type of breaker that has to be shut off and is near the middle of the car.

[ken0042]

Good info Mats. But from what I am reading, it wouldn't be too hard to install a remote switch to turn off that breaker in the 4th car, would it?

I'm just saying compared to the millions of dollars they say it will cost to extend all the current platform; adding a switch doesn't sound too hard.

[MatsNaslund]

Why not add that 4th car, and make it an "express" car. Meaning heading north it will make the first 4 stops, and then until it hits downtown the 4th car will not have its doors open; as it won't be lined up with a platform. All of a sudden you have added an extra 33% to the C-train capacity. As well, you also get rid of a major problem; I know southbound at Centre Street there's always a wall of people wanting on, but no room on the train. All of a sudden you have a brand new empty car for those people to board.

Its not something the city will want to do for many reasons. The doors of the 4th car would have to be manually turned on and off for a car by the driver. That will delay other trains. What about people who get on that 4th car that want to get off at Chinook or Vic Park Stampede (where a 3 car train barely fits)? There's no such thing as an express train except for Football games and Hockey games and even that is not really express.

There is no problem with hooking up 4 cars. Every night 6 car trains (limited to a max of 40 km/h) go to Haysboro storage (near Heritage) to the Anderson yards. The substations in that area were upgraded after the SD160s came in and were being blown due to the increased power demand by the SD's. There is not adequate power substations to run SD160s (which are what all the new trains are) at full power with 4 cars. That is the #1 problem. City Hall interlocking and Burnsland Interlocking (around 39th Ave and up to the 42 Ave tunnel) are areas where even now they can't handle full power on 3 car trains. The #2 problem is 4 car platforms. For legal and safety reasons the City won't take the chance that when someone steps off a train that they just fall down.

[MatsNaslund]

Good info Mats. But from what I am reading, it wouldn't be too hard to install a remote switch to turn off that breaker in the 4th car, would it?

Hi Ken, sounds easy but there are 3 dif families of SD160s in use and there's a couple dif kinds of U2 trains in service. The problem is that you never know what kind of car will be put on which piece of work. All the SD's are all on AC power and all but 2 of the U2's are running on DC. THe overhead power is 600 V DC. There are 2 cars (# 2101 and #2102) which are AC. Those 2 cars are the only U2's ones that get mixed with SD's but the thing is eventhough they are AC, everything else inside is the same as other U2's.

[MatsNaslund]

I guess I should explain what I mean by Full power. Full power is max acceleration or putting the drive/brake all the way forward. Full power draws the maximum amount of overheard power. Half Power is a point of power on the drive/brake lever below full power. You will still get to the same speed with half power but it will take a little longer. For years now City Hall has been at half power. For whatever reason they haven't upgraded it to be able to handle full power. For 4 car trains it would have to be done. If you ride the c-train southbound you'll notice that there is a slow down between stampede and 39th. Its due to the same reason.

Another issue that they haven't addressed is when the trains leave 7 st to goto sunnyside to go through 6,5, and 4 ave's we have to wait for both traffic lights and train lights. They do this so that traffic (cars) keeps moving on those ave's. Right now there is barely enough room to fit a 3 car train between those intersections. They would have to make changes for 4 car trains otherwise we'd be blocking traffic. The choice for the city is do they want to keep 4 car trains going or keep car traffic going? Unfortunately that's what they would have to decide.

[Antithesis]

Mats, I am wondering if you can provide some insight into the spur tunnel that shoots off underneath City Hall station, when you are going towards Stampede. I've always been really interested in it for some reason. What is all down there? Is it used for anything at all?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Mats, I am wondering if you can provide some insight into the spur tunnel that shoots off underneath City Hall station, when you are going towards Stampede. I've always been really interested in it for some reason. What is all down there? Is it used for anything at all?

Wasn't that suppose to be the underground train system until it was canned in the 80s?