Falcons' Vick indicted in dogfighting probe

[transplant99]

Seems like Vick may not understand how serious this is and the ramifications of his indictments for himself as well as the rest of the NFL.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

[J pold]

Vick is a bum I didn’t like him from when he was drafted

I remember all the “he is going to reinvent the QB position” Pfffff I said in disgust

Hopefully he never steps foot on an NFL field again

[habernac]

Originally Posted by J pold

Vick is a bum I didn’t like him from when he was drafted

I remember all the “he is going to reinvent the QB position” Pfffff I said in disgust

Hopefully he never steps foot on an NHL field again

[Cowperson]

Here's an example of why Michael Vick won't be able to rehabilitate himself in America or Canada . . . . .

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19875405/site/newsweek/

Cowperson

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Seems like Vick may not understand how serious this is and the ramifications of his indictments for himself as well as the rest of the NFL.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

Vick must think that dog fighting is a harmless vice. His attitude reminds me of a news story I saw like 15 years ago. Rooster fighting used to be legal in Arizona back then. A reporter went to a farm that raised roosters for fighting. The reporter asked "you don't believe what your doing is wrong?". The farmer replied, "Of course not! Or I woudn't be doing it!". I kind of had to chuckle at that one. Not that I think fighting is cool. But what kind of answer did the reporter think he was going to get?

Obviously Vick feels that he just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He'll get a slap on the hand and all will be forgotten. Maybe 40 years ago. But not now.

[Cowperson]

Vick pleads not guilty, trial Nov. 26 . . . . . booed by hundreds as he enters and leaves the courthouse.

What an idiot!!! He asked for a jury trial!!! Haahahahaha

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...sFootball/home

Cowperson

[nfotiu]

My friend just got back from protesting the trial. She said emotions were running pretty high as there were a bunch of people there with their pit bulls in support of Vick. What exactly are they saying, that they are in favour of dogfighting??? Jeez.

[troutman]

Sorry if this has been posted before. The Full Indictment here:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...7072vick1.html

[fredr123]

Darren Rovell figures Nike should dump Vick.

[Bobblehead]

Deion Sanders weighs in...

Or his reputation might wind up so stained that he’s never forgiven in the court of public opinion. That would be too bad for the 27-year-old superstar.

This is all the result of perspective.

What a dog means to Vick might be a lot different than what he means to you or I. Hold on, don’t start shaking your head just yet. Listen to me

OK, Deion. It is Vick's reputation at stake? It is a matter of perspective. I'll grant that the person who killed Darent Williams committed a far worse crime, and if it was Vick who pulled the trigger I think you would see a far stronger response. That doesn't exonerate Michael Vick.

And Vick isn't the "big fish"? The guy who bought the property and bankrolled the entire operation? I'd say he was a pretty big fish.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Vick pleads not guilty, trial Nov. 26 . . . . . booed by hundreds as he enters and leaves the courthouse.

What an idiot!!! He asked for a jury trial!!! Haahahahaha

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...sFootball/home

Cowperson

Obviously I think that the Jury trial is a smart move by Vick. He's already got a natural appeal set up as it will be impossible to find an unbiased juror who either hasn't watched football or dosen't love dogs.

the next move is to demand a change of venue, the defense will try to move this (and I hate to sound racist) trial to a predominantly black area that has a strong mistrust of white people. Ideally, the defense wants the same kind of jury as the O.J. Simpson jury.

When does Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton get involved.

I guarantee that race will be used heavily by the defence.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Obviously I think that the Jury trial is a smart move by Vick. He's already got a natural appeal set up as it will be impossible to find an unbiased juror who either hasn't watched football or dosen't love dogs.

the next move is to demand a change of venue, the defense will try to move this (and I hate to sound racist) trial to a predominantly black area that has a strong mistrust of white people. Ideally, the defense wants the same kind of jury as the O.J. Simpson jury.

When does Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton get involved.

I guarantee that race will be used heavily by the defence.

I see your logic . . . . . . and that's a sad indictment of the system.

BUT (and I can't find this right now) I did read only a few days ago in a news story an incident that was race-related. A black man said he was at a meeting of some sort and a frumpy white woman chairing the meeting was bowled over to learn he was a dog owner. "I didn't think you people owned dogs!!!" He said she wasn't being a deliberate idiot . . . . there is just a stereotype out there that black's aren't pet owners.

Vick might be surprised.

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I see your logic . . . . . . and that's a sad indictment of the system.

BUT (and I can't find this right now) I did read only a few days ago in a news story an incident that was race-related. A black man said he was at a meeting of some sort and a frumpy white woman chairing the meeting was bowled over to learn he was a dog owner. "I didn't think you people owned dogs!!!" He said she wasn't being a deliberate idiot . . . . there is just a stereotype out there that black's aren't pet owners.

Vick might be surprised.

Cowperson

That article was posted earlier in the thread

The jury thing makes sense if you can control the jury. If they can move the trial to a neighbourhood thats predominently black, and dosen't trust whites, then this trial becomes less about animal cruelty, and more about why the indictment was issued in and itself. The defence will stir up mistrust of the investigative measures. God forbid that any of the investigating officers is white, or any of the witness.

Some of the top names in the black community will be used to testify that Michael Vick is a humble, god fearing charitible man of the community, and there's no way that he knew what was going on in that house.

I'd also say that they might use the Dan Quinn defence as well.

The ideal juror for the prosecution is older, well educated, not a sports fan, and a pet owner, or a mother with children.

The ideal juror for the defense is black, young, a sportfan, poor, militant, can't afford a pet.


Look all the defence has to do is drag this trial on and muddy the waters to create even the smallest bit of doubt, then they inflame the jury with race in the end, and the Jury either hangs itself, or outright dismisses.

I'm sorry if this sounds terrible in some way, but I'm jaded by a legal system that allows itself to get side tracked from the true pursuit of justice, by slick trial lawyers who don't fight the facts, but they turn the process on its ear by introducing racial elements.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

That article was posted earlier in the thread

The jury thing makes sense if you can control the jury. If they can move the trial to a neighbourhood thats predominently black, and dosen't trust whites, then this trial becomes less about animal cruelty, and more about why the indictment was issued in and itself. The defence will stir up mistrust of the investigative measures. God forbid that any of the investigating officers is white, or any of the witness.

Some of the top names in the black community will be used to testify that Michael Vick is a humble, god fearing charitible man of the community, and there's no way that he knew what was going on in that house.

I'd also say that they might use the Dan Quinn defence as well.

The ideal juror for the prosecution is older, well educated, not a sports fan, and a pet owner, or a mother with children.

The ideal juror for the defense is black, young, a sportfan, poor, militant, can't afford a pet.


Look all the defence has to do is drag this trial on and muddy the waters to create even the smallest bit of doubt, then they inflame the jury with race in the end, and the Jury either hangs itself, or outright dismisses.

I'm sorry if this sounds terrible in some way, but I'm jaded by a legal system that allows itself to get side tracked from the true pursuit of justice, by slick trial lawyers who don't fight the facts, but they turn the process on its ear by introducing racial elements.

Because it's defenceless animals . . . . . . he's toast.

I started off the thread saying no one cares about murders, rapes, mangling, mayhem, etc.

But pick on a puppy or a kitten . . . . . I just don't see a jury, any jury, helping him out.

Cowperson

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Because it's defenceless animals . . . . . . he's toast.

I started off the thread saying no one cares about murders, rapes, mangling, mayhem, etc.

But pick on a puppy or a kitten . . . . . I just don't see a jury, any jury, helping him out.

Cowperson

But if it turns into a black vs white thing it is a differant story. Some will see it as lynching Vick because of his skin color. It doesn't matter what he is being charged with. Some will think it is just a set up and the government is going after Vick because he is black. It is the top story on the Yahoo main page.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

[Burninator]

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/prod...?productid=973

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Because it's defenceless animals . . . . . . he's toast.

I started off the thread saying no one cares about murders, rapes, mangling, mayhem, etc.

But pick on a puppy or a kitten . . . . . I just don't see a jury, any jury, helping him out.

Cowperson

Any defence lawyer worth his merit is going to go after the witness statements that show Vick actually participating in the acts of cruelty.

They will also move to marginalize the animal cruelty factors with the jury.

This is bigger then animal cruelty, they'll say, this is about one man who's a highly successful businessman, with charitable ties in the communities, being railroaded by a federal indictment that was delivered too soon filled with hearsay, and witnessed by people with shaky criminal pasts who cut a deal with the government to avoid punishment.

Trust me Cow, you know I'm on your side, and I want to see this guy put away and punished.

but when you combine what is surely to be the first true high profile celeb court case of this century, with the ability to play the race card, and add in a jury. We're looking at the gong shows of gong shows, and Ron Mexico walking away or getting a slap on the wrist.

In fact I'm willing to bet that a great deal of evidence will be ruled as inadmissable before this thing even goes to trial.

[Bobblehead]

I don't know about that. I think their has been a long investigation on this one, and since it didn't become big news until the charges were filed I would imagine the Feds had time to get their ducks in a row.

[socalwingfan]

The Feds have a 95% success rate on indictments. People keep comparing this to Kobe, Duke Rape case, etc. but those cases were all presented by some backwater DA trying to make a name for themselves. The Federal prosecutors have certainly come up against better Defense attorneys than Vicks - I can't see him walking away from this with a slap on the wrist.

[moon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Any defence lawyer worth his merit is going to go after the witness statements that show Vick actually participating in the acts of cruelty.

They will also move to marginalize the animal cruelty factors with the jury.

This is bigger then animal cruelty, they'll say, this is about one man who's a highly successful businessman, with charitable ties in the communities, being railroaded by a federal indictment that was delivered too soon filled with hearsay, and witnessed by people with shaky criminal pasts who cut a deal with the government to avoid punishment.

Trust me Cow, you know I'm on your side, and I want to see this guy put away and punished.

but when you combine what is surely to be the first true high profile celeb court case of this century, with the ability to play the race card, and add in a jury. We're looking at the gong shows of gong shows, and Ron Mexico walking away or getting a slap on the wrist.

In fact I'm willing to bet that a great deal of evidence will be ruled as inadmissable before this thing even goes to trial.

I might agree if this were a local crew running the prosecution, but it is the feds and they don't screw around. They also have great lawyers working for them so I am not so sure that the defense is going to have all that much of an advantage.

The feds have a history of trying very rich people and high profile defendants so I think they will be much better equipped to handle the circus that this will bring with it.

This isn't going to be Lance Ito trying to make a name for himself, Cochran prancing around the court room using catchy phrases to distract the jury and Clark/Dardon looking shell shocked all the while. I also doubt there will be any Mark Furmans either.

I think this case will come down to the facts of the case and Vick sure looks damn guitly, white/black, rich/poor, atlehte/regular joe.