The exodus begins

[Incinerator]

1 bedroom, 420 sq ft

[ken0042]

420 sq ft!

I'm not sure I'd want to spend $200K plus on a place that small. That's smaller than my garage!

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Again, my old want vs. need arguement. If you are a single guy with a 50k income do you have a brother, or friend or parents you can partner up with to acquire a place. I mean as much as our society is based on self and making it on your own, theres no shame in looking for help. The really wealthy families often pass their wealth down from generation to generation.

Ok I'll bite into this, just a bit. Not singling out anyone's posts in particular....but....the idea of "getting a friend/family/etc" to help out while nice in theory, and works for some.....also does not work for a lot of people. As Rouge, points out below, not everyone can get mom/dad/friend/brother/etc to help out. Yes, people can save (e.g. incinerator's friend saving up 30 k or whatever it was). But not everyone is able to do that as well.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

That's true and if it came down to it I'd go that route. Hell, I'd insist on it. But still, if a guy or gal can't get a down payment from dad or convince someone to sign a 25 year-contract with him, he's screwed.

I do agree, though that young peoples' (me being one of them) expectations are out of line. I fully expect to eventually have a small place in not the trendiest/most fashionable/etc neighbourhood. But at the same time, I think some people here (not in a mean way or anything) have to realize that they are describing more ideal situations. Not everything works like that, and there are challenges going against these things.

I guess what I am saying is is that, well, I'm not really sure...just that this thread seemed to need a little more 'balance' should we say.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

1 bedroom, 420 sq ft

LOL, that's not a deal. That's the average of what it cost to buy a condo at that size these days. The whole time I thought your friend found a 2 bedroom condo for that price.

Actually, I thought we were talking about 2 bedroom condos this whole time.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by ken0042

420 sq ft!

I'm not sure I'd want to spend $200K plus on a place that small. That's smaller than my garage!

I actually looked at a place that was 380 sq ft. Saw a sign for an open house so went in - didn't konw the square footage. I walked into the unit, looked around, and then found the lady working there and asked her where the rest was. At that point she revealed the square footage.

So I guess there are condos out there at the price point of under 200K but I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Those type of undersized units are hard to move in any market and I don't believe will appreciate nearly as much as a even a condo in the low 500 square footage.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

LOL, that's not a deal. That's the average of what it cost to buy a condo at that size these days. The whole time I thought your friend found a 2 bedroom condo for that price.

Actually, I thought we were talking about 2 bedroom condos this whole time.

I never said it was a deal. I only cite that as a case against the notion that it's impossible to get into the market for young people. I was talking about unrealistic expectations that need to be adjusted and this would be the perfect example case. 420 is not that small if you saw the inside, the floorplan is perfectly functional with an enclosed bedroom you can fit a queen-size in, a living/dining room, kitchen, bathroom and in-suite laundry. Tons of places going for way more in Vic Park with no in-suite laundry and only marginally bigger at 500ish sq ft.

Originally Posted by ken0042

420 sq ft!

I'm not sure I'd want to spend $200K plus on a place that small. That's smaller than my garage!

I didn't say it was 200K, I said it was below $180K. Show me something else bigger you can buy in downtown you can buy for that price and I'll give you the winning numbers to the 6/49 tonight.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So I guess there are condos out there at the price point of under 200K but I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Those type of undersized units are hard to move in any market and I don't believe will appreciate nearly as much as a even a condo in the low 500 square footage.

Depends on where it is. Location & size will always compensate for each other in any market.

[metallicat]

Man, I'd honestly rather pick up and move to Winnipeg right now, than spend around 180,000 for a 400 some square foot shack. Yeah, maybe I'm being greedy and picky, but I have to draw the line somewhere. If it costs that much in Calgary to live, then it's simply not worth it.

Not that I want to see a lot of good people screwed over, but I really wish for my own personal sake the housing market crashes...but I know it won't. Why would it? The oil boom is going way too strong and it doesn't sound like it is going to slow down. One recent article suggested house prices in Canada are set to double in the next 20 years. That obviously means getting into something is still very important, but even in 20 years, who is going to pay 300+ for a 400 sq/ft apartment?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

I didn't say it was 200K, I said it was below $180K. Show me something else bigger you can buy in downtown you can buy for that price and I'll give you the winning numbers to the 6/49 tonight.

I guess in my mind a place that small isn't something I would consider a home; more of a place to stay.

And out of spite (and I mean that in the best possible way ) I looked on MLS, and of course there isn't anything. But for $250K there's a 2 BR+den with twice the square footage. Still not my ideal situation; but something I could be inclined to consider.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by fotze

Well I wasn't expecting you to say that. I didn't even know they sold places that small....outside of Tokyo. I recently sold my 800ish square foot place for $420k. I feel for you guys because I would be so screwed if I had not jumped in after graduating.

Sounds like a good return u got on that place, fotze. My 1000 sqf. apartment cost slightly more than that, and it's a two bedroom... good return for you (I hope!).

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I guess in my mind a place that small isn't something I would consider a home; more of a place to stay.

And out of spite (and I mean that in the best possible way ) I looked on MLS, and of course there isn't anything. But for $250K there's a 2 BR+den with twice the square footage. Still not my ideal situation; but something I could be inclined to consider.

Not everything available is on MLS.ca, and even on there you'd need to set the criteria as price only instead of 200K for a 2 bedroom

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

That obviously means getting into something is still very important, but even in 20 years, who is going to pay 300+ for a 400 sq/ft apartment?

When everything else is inflated to that level in 20 years the same people who'd pay 170-180 today will pay that. When the average house in the burbs cost a million bucks.

You could move to the 'Peg and be mortgage free or close enough, so could ken0042, ask him to post for the 100th time why he's still in Calgary. Like you said there's a reason why the prices are not coming down. We all have to make that difficult choice at some point, be it starting out small or starting out somewhere else.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

420 is not that small if you saw the inside, the floorplan is perfectly functional with an enclosed bedroom you can fit a queen-size in, a living/dining room, kitchen, bathroom and in-suite laundry.

420 is that small no matter what the inside looks like, also Victoria park is a complete dive. Just last year I lived there and after a while you almost feel like a prisoner. We had drug deals going on in the front lobby, bums sleeping in any place they could (and they always get in the building somehow), people doing drugs in our laundry room and a constant barrage of hookers turning tricks in our parking area. Squeezing into a tiny place like that would just make it worse, IMO. If my choices were either spend $200,000 on a 420sq. ft shack in Vic park or move out of the city and spend $200,000 on a nice house then the option becomes pretty clear.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

One recent article suggested house prices in Canada are set to double in the next 20 years. That obviously means getting into something is still very important, but even in 20 years, who is going to pay 300+ for a 400 sq/ft apartment?

Doubling in 20 years is like 3.55% annual growth which falls right into the Bank of Canada's target inflation rate. House prices doubling in 20 years is nothing new. House prices doubling in 2 years isn't neccessarily either (although it's usually followed by a major correction where houses lose a big chunk of that gain), it's just that the numbers involved today are much more staggering than they used to be.

I stayed with a family in France in 1995 and they had a half duplex with a tiny half yard and the house maybe had 1000 sq feet on 3 levels and one full bathroom in some burb that was like a 40 minute train ride from Paris. That place in 1995 was worth around $350k U.S. So outside of Canada people have been paying big money for a place to live for a lot of years.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

Like I said if you're single you should be looking at something smaller in size & $ figure. A couple making 50K each gross can manage that easy. And what the banks can't do the mortgage brokers will make it happen 90% of the time.

This is one thing if you are an investor, but doing this with your house is playing with fire.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

If my choices were either spend $200,000 on a 420sq. ft shack in Vic park or move out of the city and spend $200,000 on a nice house then the option becomes pretty clear.

I don't think you read it right the first time, I was comparing this to higher prices Vic Park, it's not in Vic Park. And it's not 200K.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

When everything else is inflated to that level in 20 years the same people who'd pay 170-180 today will pay that. When the average house in the burbs cost a million bucks.

You could move to the 'Peg and be mortgage free or close enough, so could ken0042, ask him to post for the 100th time why he's still in Calgary. Like you said there's a reason why the prices are not coming down. We all have to make that difficult choice at some point, be it starting out small or starting out somewhere else.

Yeah I guess you're right. I think my only option is to marry rich.

[Log]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Man, I'd honestly rather pick up and move to Winnipeg right now, than spend around 180,000 for a 400 some square foot shack. Yeah, maybe I'm being greedy and picky, but I have to draw the line somewhere. If it costs that much in Calgary to live, then it's simply not worth it.

Not that I want to see a lot of good people screwed over, but I really wish for my own personal sake the housing market crashes...but I know it won't. Why would it? The oil boom is going way too strong and it doesn't sound like it is going to slow down. One recent article suggested house prices in Canada are set to double in the next 20 years. That obviously means getting into something is still very important, but even in 20 years, who is going to pay 300+ for a 400 sq/ft apartment?

Keep in mind that incomes will double within 20 years as well.

Housing in Saskatoon has started to go crazy. House prices are up 50% since last time this year. Average house price there is now $220k. Things in Regina are starting to heat up too. The average house price here is $151k. Now is a good time to get into the real estate market here.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

I never said it was a deal. I only cite that as a case against the notion that it's impossible to get into the market for young people. I was talking about unrealistic expectations that need to be adjusted and this would be the perfect example case. 420 is not that small if you saw the inside, the floorplan is perfectly functional with an enclosed bedroom you can fit a queen-size in, a living/dining room, kitchen, bathroom and in-suite laundry. Tons of places going for way more in Vic Park with no in-suite laundry and only marginally bigger at 500ish sq ft.

420 isn't small? 420 is tiny. I can point you to dozens of my friends who want out of their 400 sq ft condos, but can't because the market is killing them. Initially when you move in, you can tolerate it. Give it 3 months down the road and you could barely fit your belongings, and see how happy you would be with 400 sq ft.

Your other point about making due isn't viable either. For close to $190,000, you are still spending almost $1200 mortgage a month...add in condo fees ($250 average), car ($120 insurance, registration), gas ($400), food ($300), and all the other stuff, I'm not sure how a person can live on their own.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

This is one thing if you are an investor, but doing this with your house is playing with fire.

How is getting financing for your own primary residence playing with fire? Shouldn't it be the other way around? If you're an investor you can overstretch yourself holding multiple mortgages. I don't think there is much to worry about when you only have one mortgage with interest rates still hovering around the low end of 5.xx% as long as you have a steady income.