Who is Primerica? Legit?

[SeeGeeWhy]

I have a very good friend who's grilfriend started working with them. The information divluged in this post is now a cause for concern to say the least.

[MolsonInBothHands]

MoneyGuy and Slava, if you are concerned about hurting my feelings, since my comments about them weren't as negative, go ahead and swing away. I do have to say though that I never got the religous vibes there like I did when I was drug to an Amway seminar, but like I said, each office has very distinct philosophies I think. I say this knowing the guy running my office was a devout Mormon, (my mother used her Mormon E.S.P. and told me he was, or I never would have known) but it was never brought up.

I also think things may have been a little different when I was there because, back then, you could not do it part time. You had to hustle (pun intended), and you had to get accredited (L.I. and I.F.I.C.) as soon as possible, or you don't get paid. I also knew a couple of people in that office who were working towards their C.F.P. ... though in all fairness, they also moved on to different environments when they got it.

So to conclude... in today's job market I don't see them as a viable choice right now for employment. Like I said, it was a very different scenario for me 15 years ago. It seemed back then, the only jobs I could find were sales of some sort. I think the seminars are useful to people who have never considered MF's before, or that have been brainwashed into thinking banks and insurance companies are the only way to go. ( I do believe the brainwashing comes from many sources.)

I have no ill will towards them, but I am not surprised there are people that do.

[Slava]

Well to be fair, there are some merits. If it gets people to save money that they otherwise would not, then that is definitely a good thing. Another point is that its probably not everyone who works with them; there are always a few bad apples!

That being said, I've seen "financial plans" completed by some of their agents where it is two pages printed out and stapled together...it looks like something that a kid could complete in jr. high (not to malign jr. high students!). It just undermines what those of us in the industry do, and paints us all with the same brush.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Slava

moneyguy, that is a great post. I totally agree with everything in there, without exception! I've also had the horror of helping people recover from their advice...I just didn't know whether I should come out swinging in this thread!

Great Post!

Not bad for an Oiler fan, huh?

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I’ve seen other cases where bad advice has caused problems for the client. Sometimes those problems have been severe. I know of a case where a young fellow joined Primerica and started to call people he knew. (Sit down, because this one will make the little hairs on the back of your neck stand up.) His parents were newly retired and living on a fixed, modest income. Back in 2000 (you’ll remember when the market peaked, right), eager to get a nice commission, he sold his parents on the idea of leveraging (borrowing to invest).

Anyway, he showed his parents the dizzying returns of the last few years prior to 2000. When you can borrow money at 4-5% and get returns of 15-20%, it’s a no-brainer, right. Well, his parents borrowed 250K and then the market tanked. Big time! The parents got frantic when things tumbled to around 175K but held on on the advice of the son, who didn’t know much more than the parents. The investments kept falling and finally they sold out at around. The rookie planner (now out of the business) earned his 10K commission but his folks lost 100K plus interest paid. I know this case because I know the fund company rep who was called in to try salvage the situation, but there is nothing that can be done at that point.

The entire market came out from under people. It wouldn't just be isolated to a single case. And to blame this on Primerica is a bit of a stretch. Yes, the kid was selling them a product, but ultimately the portfolio is managed by large Mutual Funds which people were directly investing into, so your argument seems a bit like a Red Herring.

They provide very biased advice. They push overpriced insurance. Call them and get a quote on $400,000 of term insurance and then visit an independent broker and compare prices. You’ll be shocked.

If someone already has life insurance, they'll find out what theirs is and compare to Primerica's. If it isn't better, they won't sell theirs.

The occasional person does very well with them but I don’t know how they can look themselves in the mirror each morning. I couldn’t, and didn’t so I left. You see, I was one of those goofs. Now I’m with a legitimate firm and I respect myself.

If anyone here is with Primerica, shame

That's one of the most ignorant, pompous-ass statements I've seen in a while. And to think it comes from another financial advisor. My girlfriend works for Primerica and I fully support what she does. She goes through her material carefully with everyone and makes sure it is the best thing for them. She went into the business to help people, and that's what she is doing. Her clients are doing well and likes what she provides them.

To automatically paint the entire Primerica Staff as how you just did is completely ignorant.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by simmer2

The entire market came out from under people. It wouldn't just be isolated to a single case. And to blame this on Primerica is a bit of a stretch. Yes, the kid was selling them a product, but ultimately the portfolio is managed by large Mutual Funds which people were directly investing into, so your argument seems a bit like a Red Herring.

If someone already has life insurance, they'll find out what theirs is and compare to Primerica's. If it isn't better, they won't sell theirs.

That's one of the most ignorant, pompous-ass statements I've seen in a while. And to think it comes from another financial advisor. My girlfriend works for Primerica and I fully support what she does. She goes through her material carefully with everyone and makes sure it is the best thing for them. She went into the business to help people, and that's what she is doing. Her clients are doing well and likes what she provides them.

To automatically paint the entire Primerica Staff as how you just did is completely ignorant.

When I started reading the first couple of sentences in your misinformed post, I immediately thought, "Okay, here's a former Primerica rep or someone who is with them or knows someone who is." Later, I see that is the case.

You've drunk the Kool-Aid, too.

I don't blame the "planner" for the market tanking on the elderly couple. What I object to was the fact that an inexperienced advisor looking for a commission sold his elderly parents on an inappropriate leverage strategy. If it had been my parents it on the advice of some "planner," I'd have them sue his sorry butt. Those poor folks lost tens of thousands of dollars they could not afford to lose.

I know details about this case because I know the advisor who was called in to try to clean up the mess. We were all hit by the market downturn (my clients included), but to have a retired couple with limited incomes and modest risk tolerance borrow a quarter million to invest aggressively at a high point in the market, give me a break.

As for painting every Primerica "planner" (I have a more derogatory description I like to use but don't want to offend you more than I have) with the same brush, I stand by my view that most (probably at least nine out of 10) don't have nearly enough knowledge to operate in this very sophisticated business. Tax strategies, estate planning concepts, helping a client through the difficult financial decisions related to a severance package, portfolio theory and design -- the vast majority have little idea about these things. If you'd seen some of the things I have, you might be singing a different tune.

Selling the best insurance product? Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. They don't, plain and simple. Not just insurance, but also going hog wild into their proprietary investments sometimes to the virtual exclusion of all others.

Hey, you don't have to believe some anonymous website poster. Walk into any non-Primerica office and their opinion about these "planners." If you asked several advisors and didn't get general agreement with me, I'll eat a pile of stock certificates.

There are many very, very good planners who are well intentioned, have great credentials and genuinely act in their clients' best interest. At Primerica, they're very rare. Sorry to offend you, but that's the way it is. You just haven't found this out yet.

Notice I put the word planner in quotation marks when referring to Primerica reps. Why do you suppose that is?

[FurnaceFace]

As someone who "in a previous life" worked for London Life I wouldn't say there is anything inherently bad about these guys. What did bug me way back then and bugs me to this day is the attitude that permanent insurance is evil. I believe - Molson please comment if the approach has changed over the years - the agents would basically do a straight comparison of permanent vs term insurance and investing the difference. While there can be merits to this, it is not the be all and end all. Both term and perm have their place in your portfolio. It was sad to see people who had built up excellent permanent plans cancel them to go with term.

I think what made most London Lifers (and other insurance companies) spit fire was the Primerica people weren't giving a whole heap of training. they were given one pitch and were sent out to gather as much business as possible to ensure they grew their multilevel business. There was no option at the time for anything other than selling term insurance and the target was people with perm policies.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

What did bug me way back then and bugs me to this day is the attitude that permanent insurance is evil. I believe - Molson please comment if the approach has changed over the years - the agents would basically do a straight comparison of permanent vs term insurance and investing the difference.

Correct.

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I think what made most London Lifers (and other insurance companies) spit fire was the Primerica people weren't giving a whole heap of training.

Right again.

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

they were given one pitch and were sent out to gather as much business as possible to ensure they grew their multilevel business.

Yup.

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

There was no option at the time for anything other than selling term insurance and the target was people with perm policies.

Still true.

Nothing has changed.

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

EDIT: Taxes on RRSP's are deferred when given to spouses, children and grandchildren, are they not?

Only to your spouse otherwise it is 100% taxable

[Sylvanfan]

I can see why the real professional money managers would be a bit aggravated by something like Primerica. I don't mean to paint anyone with a similar brush, but I've been contacted by a rep and asked if I want this oppurtunity to be a Primerica rep without people even knowing me. If you don't know me, how can you honestly say I have the right traits for the job, you don't know my personality, my aptitudes, or my educational background. So given that it's hard not to pass judgement on the entire company that they think anyone can be a financial rep.

Money management should not be taken lightly, but unfortunately it is by too many people. The less most people know about it, the easier it is for the few who do to become very wealthy. If you're going to pay to get something done professionally the only thing I'd put above money management is your health. Pretty much anything else can eventually be fixed if you do it yourself and screw up....your house, your car. But if you try to manage your own money for 15 years and don't know what you're doing, that really can't be fixed, only corrected moving forward. I'm not a financial planner , but my advice to anyone is to seek professional advice because with money, time is a very important factor and the less amount of it you waste the better off you'll be.

Rant over

[Slava]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Not bad for an Oiler fan, huh?

That is almost enough to discredit you completely!

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Hey guys, sorry to bring this back up . . . but not really.

A friend of mine e-mailed me about a business opportunity, being the egotistical capitalist that I am I was more than happy to find out what he was talking about. He passed my info on so I could attend a seminar that's happening tomorrow night.

Cool, I thought! (Still think so too)

I got a call regarding the details and found out it was about a company called Primerica. I said I recoginzed the name, but couldn't remember where from. He mentioned about how it's part of Citigroup and are going to be opening 3 new offices in my area.

When he talked about part-time employement I wasn't too keen, but was more interested in the full-time possibilities that he'd reference then lead away from. Naturally I thought they were looking for part-timers and didn't really need any full-time staff at the moment.

Then I went to Google their ass. Naturally. I don't want to walk into a seminar unprepared (unless I'm getting course credit). I found a few websites about the "Primerica Scam". Then I thought the good people at CP will know!

So as I typed the title of my thread, I thought "I better search this, avoid a possible fata". Score one for MQS, I found this thread (no fata for me mother fataers!)

Anyway back to my serious self,

I'm going to attend their seminar and see what they have to say. A few sites warned about fast paced presentations, and to paraphrase the websites in my own words "smoke and mirrors". Having debated competitively for over ten years, I can generally spot misdirection a mile away.

That said, has anyone attended one of these (I'll be re-reading this thread tonight)? Anyone have any suggestions, tips, things to look out for when they're presenting?

Thankyou in advance, and I promise to tell you how things go

MQS

(PS: The presentation is downtown where the bars are so worst case scenerio I don't have far to get drunk, hell I don't have to leave the building to go to my favourite bar in the city, can I get a woop woop)

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Hey guys, sorry to bring this back up . . . but not really.

A friend of mine e-mailed me about a business opportunity, being the egotistical capitalist that I am I was more than happy to find out what he was talking about. He passed my info on so I could attend a seminar that's happening tomorrow night.

Cool, I thought! (Still think so too)

I got a call regarding the details and found out it was about a company called Primerica. I said I recoginzed the name, but couldn't remember where from. He mentioned about how it's part of Citigroup and are going to be opening 3 new offices in my area.

When he talked about part-time employement I wasn't too keen, but was more interested in the full-time possibilities that he'd reference then lead away from. Naturally I thought they were looking for part-timers and didn't really need any full-time staff at the moment.

Then I went to Google their ass. Naturally. I don't want to walk into a seminar unprepared (unless I'm getting course credit). I found a few websites about the "Primerica Scam". Then I thought the good people at CP will know!

So as I typed the title of my thread, I thought "I better search this, avoid a possible fata". Score one for MQS, I found this thread (no fata for me mother fataers!)

Anyway back to my serious self,

I'm going to attend their seminar and see what they have to say. A few sites warned about fast paced presentations, and to paraphrase the websites in my own words "smoke and mirrors". Having debated competitively for over ten years, I can generally spot misdirection a mile away.

That said, has anyone attended one of these (I'll be re-reading this thread tonight)? Anyone have any suggestions, tips, things to look out for when they're presenting?

Thankyou in advance, and I promise to tell you how things go

MQS

(PS: The presentation is downtown where the bars are so worst case scenerio I don't have far to get drunk, hell I don't have to leave the building to go to my favourite bar in the city, can I get a woop woop)

A good multi-level is good at one thing: getting you excited and sucking you in.

You have to believe in the product and you have to market yourself HARD to be successful. If you don't believe that you are selling the best investment possible, then don't get into it. If you can't market yourself, then don't get into it.

I'd rather get drunk than hear the pitch. My two cents.

[Cowboy89]

[quote=Maritime Q-Scout;895901] Anyone have any suggestions, tips, things to look out for when they're presenting?quote]

Try to ask questions over exactly how the organization makes money and how sellers make money. These types of groups try to avoid being clear on how money is made, how people are paid, and how the organization grows.

They usually try to 'recruit' anyone they can and try to get their insurance sellers to sell to their family members. The premise is to get people to cash in their 'Whole life insurance policies" in exchange for "term policies" while providing investment advice and earning commisions on the difference between the two. There is a multitude of reasons some good some bad for people to do this. Many people earlier on in this thread have provided a lot of details about this.

I agree with SeeGeeWhy that I would rather get drunk than hear the pitch. If you're not a natural born salesman or do not fully understand the product they're selling or simply don't believe that their product is the best thing available for your customers you're wasting your time and you won't sell enough to put food on the table despite how pumped the presenters will try to get you.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

I'd rather get drunk than hear the pitch. My two cents.

I'd rather watch Oilers hockey than hear the pitch.

Seriously, if you already have doubts, why put yourself through it? This isn't like a time share speach where you at least get a weekend away or something out of it.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Why put myself through this?

Two reasons:

1 - a friend asked my opinion on them, I want to give a full and balanced view of what I think they're like

2 - if they're as sleezy as you say they are, man I miss university debating! It's been AGES since I've systematically picked someone apart. Since these guys are good at what they do, and truly believe in it, it might be fun to try and bring them down a peg or two :P

[Barnes]

I had an "interview" with them about 5 years ago. The dude called me for months after I told him I wasn't interested..

[MoneyGuy]

I've been there, done that. I started with this flaky firm many years ago. Before I had one client I recognized it for the lousy organization it is. I fled for the hills. I wrote some very long posts in this thread (59 and 67) and don't want to repeat myself, so please read that. Go if you wish, but don't sign anything. You don't have to believe me. Call up any financial planner and I'd bet you that they'd have a very dismal view of this organization. These folks are trying to change the world with little training, no designations and credentials and low morals.

If you have questions, post or PM me. I'd be happy to answer.

And, in case you're wondering, it's been 13 yrs since I left I'm still in the business and am very successful. Leaving these bozos is one of the smartest things I've ever done. I'm pretty confident that if you attend this meeting, you'll see through the glitz. It's not hard.

MoneyGuy
Financial Planner (a real one)

p.s. If Primerica is good for one thing, it's this: They will take anyone as a client, just as the firm will hire anyone as an advisor. They take on very small clients who many good, legit advisors don't want to serve.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

just read through the thread in detail (ok I read threw the thread then took a nap).

As I said to the friend that told me about this, a few flags went up with Primerica, and I outlined them for him.

After thinking about this thread there is a major question that is unaddressed throughout the entire thread. In fairness it's never asked, but should be.

If Primerica's methods of doing business and scam-esque business practices are so bad . . . how do the others do it?

Frankly not knowing much about the industry, it seems not much different than franchising to me. You charge a percentage of gross sales (in this case your commission) to go up the line to pay for your franchise license, then possibly whoever owns a master license, and then the corporate/head office, etc.

I just want to know all the information about the topic and opportunity. So I need to know how the "legit" ones (as they've been refered to) do it.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

If Primerica's methods of doing business and scam-esque business practices are so bad . . . how do the others do it?

...I need to know how the "legit" ones (as they've been refered to) do it.

If scam = illegal, it's not a scam. If scam = twisting the facts for their own gain, then it is.

What others do you refer to? Other financial firms, or the Primerica reps who are successful?

I'll assume you meanthe successful Primerica reps, and there are some who do very well. You get licensed, learning how to sell to your friends and relatives. YOu stick it out through the lean years, and there will be some very lean years. You're motivated by the religious-like fervour (it will be a mild version of this at that first meeting you're considering attending) at the rallies and meetings you attend. You recruit as many into the cult so they can sell to their friends and relatives. Those who quit in frustration after a year or two have their 25-30 clients transfer to you, which helps you build your pyramid and find new victims...um, clients. You build and build and build. All the while you (I'm repeating myself here but this is important) twist the truth to get people to do what you want (whatever makes you money). I won't lie to you. Some of these guys who manage to endure and build large organizations and make hundreds of thousands of dollars. That part is true. What they don't tell you is that your chance of doing that is about the same as midget hockey player making it big in the NHL.