PROOF that Evolution is a Myth

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Catholic School board has existed for a long time, and they have never tried to push creationism as the only possibility. I went to a Catholic school until grade 10, and we had all the same science courses that the public schools had (the exact same text books actually). In fact, I would say that when it came to chemistry, geology, biology, and physics, I was actually at a higher level than the students who were brought up through the public school system. I also can't remember ever learning about creationism theory in Catholic school. There was a "Religion" class which was more about translating what the Bible is implying in certain "stories", but that was about as far as it went.

I went to public school in Ont. I remember bible verses being read every day and saying The Lord's Prayer all the way through high school (I graduated in '87). In the early grades I recall being taught to sing songs like "Joshua fought the battle of Jherico".

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I wouldn't call it pushing since most of the people who go to those schools already believe that stuff anyway. It's not like they force non-Catholics to go.

(I only went to make my grandmother happy. When she died, we bailed )

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing what Cheese is talking about here is that children are forcefully baptized.

The reason these people "believe" this stuff is because they weren't given a chance to make their own choice when they were young. They were indoctrinated before they had the capacity to think critically -- essentially, throwing away any chance they had when they were born, to make their own decisions about religion at a later time when they would have had a chance to make the decision after seeing things from all perspectives.

[SoCalFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Cheese

But they still push God/Jesus/Mother Mary/Holy Ghost/sacrements/etc etc etc on all of the children.
Get on your knees!

In all honesty that was not my experience in the Catholic school system in Calgary at all.

I come from a family that believes in God, but not in any prescribed religion. I myself have never believed in God, not when I was in school, or now.

But what I found was that this experience opened my mind to other possibilities and of the rights of these other possibilities to exist.

My school experience was NEVER that anything was pushed onto the students. Religion class was mandatory - but through it came my first exposure to Buddhism and other Eastern religious thought.

There were religious aspects in addition to that. There were masses for graduation for example. But these were optional, and as a non-catholic student I was neither discouraged nor encouraged to attend. It was up to me. Sometimes I went. Sometimes I didnt. And there were always non-religious versions of all the usual school ceremonys as well.

Growing up I went to schools in 4 different countries on 3 different continents and the best education I recieved, especially in the sciences (for which I eventually went to university) was in the Calgary Catholic system.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Cheese

But they still push God/Jesus/Mother Mary/Holy Ghost/sacrements/etc etc etc on all of the children.
Get on your knees!

I woudln't say it's pushed either (Alum of 12 years of Cahtolic school here).
Other than a single class (that being religion of course) it's exactly like any other school.
And by the time you get to high school, there actually is a lot of focus on other religions. In Religion 10,20,and 30 we discussed catholicism, as well as Islam, Judeism, Mormonism, Buddhism, and I'm sure a few more I can't remember.

It's not like in science class they were saying things like "Evolution is wrong". In fact the Pope (at least the last one) was very adamant that science (including evolution) and religion do not conflict, and that they can be taught as seperate subjects Science is the "how", and Religion is the "why".

Besides, it's not like people don't have a choice. If you don't approve of the Catholic system, then don't send your kids there, and don't select it as the school board that your taxes go to (rember you have a choice for that too).

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Besides, it's not like people don't have a choice. If you don't approve of the Catholic system, then don't send your kids there, and don't select it as the school board that your taxes go to (rember you have a choice for that too).

But why can't the children choose for themselves?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing what Cheese is talking about here is that children are forcefully baptized.

The reason these people "believe" this stuff is because they weren't given a chance to make their own choice when they were young. They were indoctrinated before they had the capacity to think critically -- essentially, throwing away any chance they had when they were born, to make their own decisions about religion at a later time when they would have had a chance to make the decision after seeing things from all perspectives.

Sure, but you can say that about virtually anything a child believes. They only believe it because they were indoctrinated. Usually by parents, and sometimes by other adults, television... whatever.

If we gave kids the ability to choose any direction before they were allowed to critically think for themselves, not only would Catholic schools not exist, but no schools would exist.

[SoCalFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

But why can't the children choose for themselves?

Because children don't have the capacity or the experience or understanding of all the possibilities and options and consequences for this. That is why is they have parents.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

But why can't the children choose for themselves?

Same reason they can't drink, smoke, vote, engage in sexual congress, be held accountable for criminal acts, enter into contracts or drive until they reach minimum ages. In all cases, parents/guardians handle the affairs of the child exclusively until they reach an age where they can comprehend what they are doing and be held accountable to it.

Thats why the Catholics, Lutherans (and others) have Confirmation sometime between Grade 6 and 10. The expectation is that they then confirm the oaths their parents made on their behalf. This is optional.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

But why can't the children choose for themselves?

Cause they're freakin children. Decisions get made for them every day.

Religious or not, it's hard to argue that for the most part religion at least provides a basis for morality. Once a kid is old enought to reason for themselves, they can choose to switch schools if they want. I did 12 years of it, and I don't think I've been to church since I graduated.
My parents don't go either, and have never been very religious, hell my dad isn't even Catholic.

Am I a good Catholic? Debatable, I think I'm a good person, but I don't do everything I'm supposed to (i.e. Church and praying). But I'll tell you this, I'll definately send my kids to Catholic schools because at least there is a class that sets a moral standard, that whether it is based in belief in God or not, I feel is a good one (you know, don't kill, be good to your neighbour type of thing), and will be the same things I'm teaching them at home (though likely without the God angle).

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If we gave kids the ability to choose any direction before they were allowed to critically think for themselves, not only would Catholic schools not exist, but no schools would exist.

Well obviously, children need guidance and direction at that age, but what I'm getting at is the difference between teaching a child what to think versus teaching a child how to think.

On a personal note, my mother is Christian, and I'm very thankful that she chose the later option of the two I mentioned above. She gave me a chance to grow and look at the evidence for myself, rather than teach me at a young age "the truth".

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I proudly went to Catholic School from K-12... I don't bible thump, in fact, I learned some of the greatest criticisms of Christianity from High School Religion. Catholic Schools in Alberta have a much higher level of achievement than public, and thats proven at every provincial exam level. Only expensive private schools do better.

Not that I don't believe you, but where did you get that about Catholic schools having a higher level of achievement?

I've looked at a few Fraser Institute rankings and I never noticed anything other than private schools kick ass and the the other schools -- Christian, public, Catholic et cetera fill out the rest of the list pretty evenly.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't understand why some very religious people feel threatened by evolution. Couldn't they just claim that evolution is a set of principles designed by a higher power to aid in creation?

What's the use for God then? I think if creationists (or whoever) start going down that road, all of a sudden God isn't doing anything. The big bang for instance, you could just argue that God had two things collide, that's how he creates universes. Same goes for humans. Admitting that "gods greatest creation" wasn't created but rather evolved is counter to other fundamental religious beliefs by such people.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

Well obviously, children need guidance and direction at that age, but what I'm getting at is the difference between teaching a child what to think versus teaching a child how to think.

On a personal note, my mother is Christian, and I'm very thankful that she chose the later option of the two I mentioned above. She gave me a chance to grow and look at the evidence for myself, rather than teach me at a young age "the truth".

You're assuming that because someone puts their child in a Catholic school, then they are not being taught to think for themselves. Just because they are in a Catholic school, it doesn't mean that the parents are taken out of the equation. If the parents are not teaching their children how to think, then there is a problem... and that problem is independent of school type. (ie. MANY non-Catholic children have the same problem)

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

What's the use for God then? I think if creationists (or whoever) start going down that road, all of a sudden God isn't doing anything. The big bang for instance, you could just argue that God had two things collide, that's how he creates universes. Same goes for humans. Admitting that "gods greatest creation" wasn't created but rather evolved is counter to other fundamental religious beliefs by such people.

What if God knew how it would all develop so He gave us the proper starting point?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Burninator

What's the use for God then? I think if creationists (or whoever) start going down that road, all of a sudden God isn't doing anything. The big bang for instance, you could just argue that God had two things collide, that's how he creates universes. Same goes for humans. Admitting that "gods greatest creation" wasn't created but rather evolved is counter to other fundamental religious beliefs by such people.

It depends on how you view it. Like I said, to many people "evolution" is "creation".

God isn't always in the template of organized Western religion. It is many things to many people. What you are saying only matters in one particular small view that doesn't represent a majority.

[Cheese]

Actually knowing quite a few parents who send their kids to Catholic school, Id suggest that at least 50% or more do so, due to convenience. Parents were baptised that way MANY years ago allowing them to have that choice and perhaps send the kids to a school thats 1 block away vs 10 blocks.
There are still some who advocate Catholicism...but Id think the % is minimal. How many of you who went to Catholic school live the Catholic way and go to church Sunday mornings? 5%? less? My bet is on the less. So what is the purpose?

Noone answered my question...in todays Canada why is it that a Catholic system is still a part of the choice? Why isnt it a multi-denominational choice? Could they all get along? Would it be harmonious having Catholic kids being taught to kneel down 5 times a day for prayer the Islamic way vs prayer to God every morning? Isnt it Canada's way to be fair to all denominations?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by FireFly

What if God knew how it would all develop so He gave us the proper starting point?

I think for a lot of Christians and other religious people that makes sense, and are fine with that. I recall some analogy about God being a watch maker, and the universe is like a giant clock that he made and wound up, but I can't remember how that goes exactly. But for creationists who are typically evangelical Christians at heart, that goes against a large part of the bible. And the bible is not really up for that much interpretation for them.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Noone answered my question...in todays Canada why is it that a Catholic system is still a part of the choice? Why isnt it a multi-denominational choice? Could they all get along? Would it be harmonious having Catholic kids being taught to kneel down 5 times a day for prayer the Islamic way vs prayer to God every morning? Isnt it Canada's way to be fair to all denominations?

There are schools for other religions. As a matter of fact, there's a Muslim school in NE Calgary that I know of and walk by on my way to work.

Apparently Cheese, you fail to realize that tolerance does not equal acceptance. Should we force you to kneel down and pray to any God any time during the day? Why should we force Catholics? It's one thing to teach about other religions as those who attended Catholic school can attest that they ARE taught about other religions, and it's another to force people to practise said religion.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I think for a lot of Christians and other religious people that makes sense, and are fine with that. I recall some analogy about God being a watch maker, and the universe is like a giant clock that he made and wound up, but I can't remember how that goes exactly. But for creationists who are typically evangelical Christians at heart, that goes against a large part of the bible. And the bible is not really up for that much interpretation for them.

Ah yes, those who interpret the Bible literally and fail to realize that it's all an interpretation. Queue Cheese with his comments about "Well if it's truely the word of God, why would He allow it to be interpreted any way but the correct one?"

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Cause they're freakin children. Decisions get made for them every day.

And Im sure all parental decisions are correct? As you mentioned religious programming didnt do anything for you....but Im sure it has made many children paranoid of an afterlife? Im sure youve met a few?