Apocalpto

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

But it's all in the service of having the Europeans come as a signal of what the "new beginning" will be after the Mayan civilization collapses. Remember the epigraph from W. Durant at the start of the film? "A civilization cannot be conquered from without until it has first defeated itself from within." The story's basically about one society's decadent collapse, and another society that arrives (carrying crucifixes and looking stately) to sort things out and provide a new paradigm.

I wasn't sure if that was the message. Jaguar Paw and family reject going to the Europeans, and choose to go back to the forest.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by troutman

I wasn't sure if that was the message. Jaguar Paw and family reject going to the Europeans, and choose to go back to the forest.

I just didn't get a real hopeful sense from that decision. After all, that first group they encounter was looking for a "new beginning" in the forest too, and we saw how that worked out. Though I agree, interpretation is a tricky business in this case.

But there was also the matter of prophecy girl, who kind of suggests that Jaguar Paw is a messiah walking among them, bringing about the end times, handing out retribution to the wicked, etc. Though admittedly he himself doesn't talk to her about it.

[Sainters7]

AAAAHHH!!!!!

haha This thread is getting to the point where you guys have to write ***SPOILER ALERT*** and then skip down a few lines before posting. I just read a couple things I wished I hadnt...

[blankall]

I'm probably going to see this movie at some point, despite the controversy.

I just hope it doesnt turn into antoher one of his stroke fests. Ever since he made braveheart he thinks people want to see him as some kind of super hero fighting an over-villanized and historically revised bad guy. The patriot and we were soldiers was absolute crap...

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm probably going to see this movie at some point, despite the controversy.

I just hope it doesnt turn into antoher one of his stroke fests. Ever since he made braveheart he thinks people want to see him as some kind of super hero fighting an over-villanized and historically revised bad guy. The patriot and we were soldiers was absolute crap...

I didn't see We Were Soldiers but I regretfully saw The Patriot and Braveheart. He doesn't like them Englishmen.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm probably going to see this movie at some point, despite the controversy.

I just hope it doesnt turn into antoher one of his stroke fests. Ever since he made braveheart he thinks people want to see him as some kind of super hero fighting an over-villanized and historically revised bad guy. The patriot and we were soldiers was absolute crap...

I only watch those in the privacy of my own room

[Cowperson]

"What's with Mel Gibson's Bloody Porn?" . . . . asks an LA Times columnist.

This is a standard Gibson trope. He loves to get people painfully restrained and then do really bad things to them — Turan mentions the actor's drawing-and-quartering scene in "Braveheart" and the ghastly flogging of Jesus in "The Passion." We are not, in these instances, dealing with mere "violence." We are dealing with ritualized sadomasochism — an open manifestation of one of those dark fantasies that those in thrall to them must endlessly repeat and that have, of course, some sort of psychosexual component.

That's why "Apocalypto" is so discomfiting. Ordinary movie violence generally happens on the fly, without an awful lot of calculation or consequence, though we can occasionally be instructed by it, as we were by "Hotel Rwanda" or the current "Blood Diamond." But psychosexual violence of the kind Gibson is drawn to takes us to a truly ugly place. It is beyond the reach of the law, diplomacy, public policy or moral resolve. We can punish its practitioners only when fantasy turns into horrific, real-world acts. But we cannot cure them. They represent the irreducible, ineluctable evil of the world — the grimmest side of the social compact.


http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...ome-commentary

Cowperson

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

^^

Good article. The LA Times is a pretty underrated paper, IMO.

Re: Gibson's sadomasochism. It IS bizarre, isn't it? I couldn't help thinking of the episode of South Park that came out after the Passion of the Christ was in theatres, in which Mel Gibson was going around begging people to torture him. Hilarious, and in hindsight even more apt than I first thought.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

For those interested, here's my review of Apocalypto for the Iowa City Press-Citizen. Took them a while to print it, but late's better than never, I guess.
http://www.press-citizen.com/apps/pb...3/1018/OPINION

[Sainters7]

Finally saw this movie tonight. Way different than I thought it was going to be(I figured it would start with the Europeans arriving, and would be an uneasy relationship b/t the two until it finally boiled over into bloodshed), but it was still a good movie. What a bloodbath!