Thoughts on Liberal leadership race?

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Cheese

LOL...I think the Cons get the same coverage that the Libs get...but I must admit I do find it increasingly funny that Alberta seem to be the only province pushing the Cons on the ROC. Face it...they are not the answer...we dont need their ideology as it stands right now to be successful.

Think again.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cheese

LOL...I think the Cons get the same coverage that the Libs get...but I must admit I do find it increasingly funny that Alberta seem to be the only province pushing the Cons on the ROC. Face it...they are not the answer...we dont need their ideology as it stands right now to be successful.

Your right, we don't need a party who's key ideology is to actually attempt to live up to thier promises and bring accountibility to government.

We need more crooks and scumbags and wimps running this country.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We need more crooks and scumbags and wimps running this country.

wimps?
Does that mean Harper is a tuff guy?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

I was gonna say the same thing, this parties arrogance is sickening. Any other country in the world would do away with the Liberal party faster than the idea of socialism.

Do away with the Liberal party? How demoncratic of you.
When you say "any other country" you must be refering to N.Korea and Cuba

[octothorp]

Pretty funny moment on CBC--for the last fifteen minutes they've had a camera on each of the candidates, and it's pretty clear that Dion knows he's won and Ignatieff is on the verge of tears, but they keep delaying the actual announcement. So Mansbridge and the other people on CBC are complaining about how inhumane it is to have the poor guy's face up there. Uh, Peter, I don't think anyone's forcing the CBC to broadcast this. They could easily cut away (as Global did) if they thought it was so inhumane.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by FLAMESBURNOIL

I can't enough of Liberal arrogance!!! That all it takes hey?

heh, like it or not, yes that's all it will take, I guarantee it. For better or worse, the Liberal's still represent the majority view of Canadians, especially in the provinces that decide elections. I didn't say it was fair, but that's the way it is in Canada.

Sad thing is, if the Conservatives would get rid of all the extremist churchie a-holes trying to push their morals on everyone, I think they would be a pretty decent party that people would support for the longterm. I don't give a crap who people are screwing or marrying, who wants to abort what, or who wants to separate from who cause they've been done wrong....I care about supporting a healthy sustainable economy, health care, and the environment. Stick to supporting those, and I will support you.

It's funny how a basis of many right-wing thinkers is wanting the government to stay out of their lives, yet when it comes to morality, they are the ones trying to control everyone else.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

A waste? How is returning tax dollars to citizens a waste? I will tell you what a waste is.....deciding that the citizens of Alberta aren't smart enough to decide what they can do with their own money.

The thing is, most citizens AREN'T smart enough to decide. There is a reason we elect officials to make certain decisions for us....it's part of the basis of democracy. If you don't trust the government of Alberta to make those decisions for you, why the hell did you elect them in the first place? I really don't get your line of thinking on this one, it's totally contradictory.

And do you really think that most Albertan's spent their money on tuition, rent, or things that will actually help them fundementally? No, most of the people I know blew it on frivolous purchaes like lottery tickets, booze, and jeans. I know people love to spout rhetoric about the grassroots knowing what's best, but the sad reality is most people are fricking idiots.

[The Goon]

I think Dion's victory is good for all Canadians. The better leaders we have for our political parties-all our political parties-the better off we are. It's our good fortune when the election comes that we can't lose, no matter who we vote for.

I'm very happy with today's result, and I anticipate the exchange of ideas when the next federal election comes. God Bless Canada.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The thing is, most citizens AREN'T smart enough to decide. There is a reason we elect officials to make certain decisions for us....it's part of the basis of democracy. If you don't trust the government of Alberta to make those decisions for you, why the hell did you elect them in the first place? I really don't get your line of thinking on this one, it's totally contradictory.

And do you really think that most Albertan's spent their money on tuition, rent, or things that will actually help them fundementally? No, most of the people I know blew it on frivolous purchaes like lottery tickets, booze, and jeans. I know people love to spout rhetoric about the grassroots knowing what's best, but the sad reality is most people are fricking idiots.

Bull****.....It is there money not yours....not the governments. Just because you do not agree with how they spent their money does not make it wrong. The amount we pay in taxes......people deserve to spend some of their money on THEMSELVES. It is people like you that **** me off. This idea that people are stupid....they cannot make their own decisions on how to spend their won money. Funny.....Alberta is the most prosperous Province and work the most hours and have the best productivity....yet we do not know how to spend our own money. Go back to lala land in Quebec and tell them how they should spend there money. Sounds like you would rather have a dictatorship....because you know better than the little plebs.

Absolutly unbelievable.........

[Devils'Advocate]

I have no seeded distaste for Stephane Dion and even in broken english you can tell he'd be a far better leader than Jean Chretien. But the Liberals are way too far to the right for my tastes.

They sat around for over 10 years discussing Kyoto and doing very little about it, even during Dion's term as environment minister. They promised to pick up the ball that Mulroney dropped and irradicate child poverty by 2000. Woops. Failed there too. They talk a good game, and Stephane Dion talks a good game too, but I don't trust his party to follow through on their promises. I trust the Conservatives to keep their promises... I just don't like what they are promising (further discussion on gay marriage, family bonus cheques instead of organized child care programs, draining money from transfer payments so that hospitals and schools in Atlantic Canada deteriorate). I don't know which party I like better. A party that tells me what I don't want to hear and then delivers, or a party that tells me what I do want to hear and then doesn't deliver. I'll never vote for either party and I'll continue voting Green and NDP.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by The Goon

I think Dion's victory is good for all Canadians. The better leaders we have for our political parties-all our political parties-the better off we are. It's our good fortune when the election comes that we can't lose, no matter who we vote for.

I'm very happy with today's result, and I anticipate the exchange of ideas when the next federal election comes. God Bless Canada.

As a conservative I love the choice. I cant see this guy making inroads anywhere but Quebec, he has little to no charisma and served as a federal lib throughout the sponsership scandal, in Quebec no less.

Its a happy day for me, another Harper victory is on the way. Long live the Torries.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I have no seeded distaste for Stephane Dion and even in broken english you can tell he'd be a far better leader than Jean Chretien. But the Liberals are way too far to the right for my tastes.

They sat around for over 10 years discussing Kyoto and doing very little about it, even during Dion's term as environment minister. They promised to pick up the ball that Mulroney dropped and irradicate child poverty by 2000. Woops. Failed there too. They talk a good game, and Stephane Dion talks a good game too, but I don't trust his party to follow through on their promises. I trust the Conservatives to keep their promises... I just don't like what they are promising (further discussion on gay marriage, family bonus cheques instead of organized child care programs, draining money from transfer payments so that hospitals and schools in Atlantic Canada deteriorate). I don't know which party I like better. A party that tells me what I don't want to hear and then delivers, or a party that tells me what I do want to hear and then doesn't deliver. I'll never vote for either party and I'll continue voting Green and NDP.

I respect your post....nice to see people write the truth about things....altho I have a problem with your assumsion that the CPC is destroying schools and hospitals in Eastern Canada. It was the Libs that reduced the Healthcare equation from 50/50 federal/provincial to 15/85 federal/provincial funding. It wasn't until the 11th hour that Paul Martin decided to give NFL its share of the resources revenue and only because the CPC was promising to do it.

[browna]

It will be tough for Dion to get ahead anywhere other the PQ.

He was one of the few quebec Libs to get through the sponsoship scandal (it appears), but still can be linked as an ally of Martin and Chretien...and although not directly responsible, he was environment minister for the same government that went along with Kyoto.

That said, strictly on a personality level, he easier to take the Rae or Ingnaltief.

And, thank goodness Ignaltief didn't win...everytime someone referred to him as"Iggy" I cringed...there's only one Iggy that should be considered for PM in this country!

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

It was the Libs that reduced the Healthcare equation from 50/50 federal/provincial to 15/85 federal/provincial funding. It wasn't until the 11th hour that Paul Martin decided to give NFL its share of the resources revenue and only because the CPC was promising to do it.

To be fair (I am neither a Lib nor a Con), it wasn't just the Chretien/Martin Libs that were involved in reducing health spending to the pathetic level that it has reached. Previous Liberal and Conservative governments have also been involved in the cutbacks as well which have devastated our once proud health care system.

The Libs have made a good choice (seemingly for once)...it is one of the few times that in the history of the Liberal Party that a candidate of principle has beaten the extreme pragmatist candidate. Dion comes off as a sincere politician which could be an interesting juxtaposition to Harper who has a fairly Machiavellian view of political strategy. We shall see if Harper can take advantage of Dion's naïveté or is hand-cuffed by it.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Bull****.....It is there money not yours....not the governments. Just because you do not agree with how they spent their money does not make it wrong. The amount we pay in taxes......people deserve to spend some of their money on THEMSELVES. It is people like you that **** me off. This idea that people are stupid....they cannot make their own decisions on how to spend their won money. Funny.....Alberta is the most prosperous Province and work the most hours and have the best productivity....yet we do not know how to spend our own money. Go back to lala land in Quebec and tell them how they should spend there money. Sounds like you would rather have a dictatorship....because you know better than the little plebs.

Absolutly unbelievable.........

one. calm down.

two. If you want Albertan's to be in control of their own money, how about the government just lower taxes?

three. you still havent explained why you voted for the PC's if you dont trust them to spend your money.

four. calm down some more. seriously, its not good for your health.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The thing is, most citizens AREN'T smart enough to decide. There is a reason we elect officials to make certain decisions for us....it's part of the basis of democracy. If you don't trust the government of Alberta to make those decisions for you, why the hell did you elect them in the first place? I really don't get your line of thinking on this one, it's totally contradictory.

And do you really think that most Albertan's spent their money on tuition, rent, or things that will actually help them fundementally? No, most of the people I know blew it on frivolous purchaes like lottery tickets, booze, and jeans. I know people love to spout rhetoric about the grassroots knowing what's best, but the sad reality is most people are fricking idiots.

Wow the old beer and popcorn argument. The funny thing is that anytime you get the government funding things like healthcare, education and infastructure, it becomes a drag race between inefficiency and stupidity. Not because of underfunding, but because of poor spending decisions.

Beyond that, this country is taxed above and beyond stupidity and the governments continue to tax up to surpluses that they then blow on stupid pet projects or patronage positions.

Personally I should have the right to decide where my money that I earned goes to some extent, but I don't.

I have no problems with funding education, or healthcare, or building roads or national defense. But I have issues with my money going towards art or films or little pet projects that I either don't care about, or I strongly disagree with.

I strongly think that the government should get out of the pension business, since its useless anyways, and there should be stronger encouragment for people to put thier own money away.

If we're going to be smarter and we're going to educate people then we should allow people to make thier own choices.

Just my 2 cents.

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

As a conservative I love the choice. I cant see this guy making inroads anywhere but Quebec, he has little to no charisma and served as a federal lib throughout the sponsership scandal, in Quebec no less.

Its a happy day for me, another Harper victory is on the way. Long live the Torries.

I'm not a follower of any party, but I believe that no matter which party is elected next, we'll have a good Prime Minister. We are lucky to be Canadian.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Table 5

one. calm down.

two. If you want Albertan's to be in control of their own money, how about the government just lower taxes?

three. calm down some more. seriously, its not good for your health.

four. you still havent explained why you voted for the PC's if you dont trust them to spend your money.

I know....but this kind of talk really ****es me off.

You cannot lower taxes to 0.....we need a reliable source of income....if at the end of the day there is money left over...then give it back.

When did I say I voted for the PC's? Because I didn't say that and I didn't vote for them in the last provincial election because I thought that old Ralphy was on cruise control and didn't have any vision for the province...which he didn't. Another thing is....I think the conservatives in general at the current time, are better off managing our money than any other party.....

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by The Goon

I'm not a follower of any party, but I believe that no matter which party is elected next, we'll have a good Prime Minister. We are lucky to be Canadian.

I will have to disagree with that. I would consider moving to the US if Layton ws ever elected(not that it would ever happen). And I think Dion would be a horrible PM for the West, a man I certainly dont want to see in office.

As much as I hate the Libs if one of the candidates had to be PM I would have choosen Ignatieff, but I certainly dont want to see Dion get anywhere near sussix drive.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

I will have to disagree with that. I would consider moving to the US if Layton ws ever elected(not that it would ever happen). And I think Dion would be a horrible PM for the West, a man I certainly dont want to see in office.

I guess we have different perspectives...I want a potential PM to be good for Canada and the entire Canadian people, you want one who is good for the West.

Ideologically, I don't agree with a lot of Dion's ideas and wouldn't vote for his party but there is no doubt that he is sincere in his desire to be a good PM for Canada. I think the Goon is stating that even though we may strongly disagree ideologically with the politicians in power they at least are democratically elected and have a respect for the rule of law and the Canadian people. We don't have any Kim Jong-Il's or Saddam Hussein's and thank goodness for that.