Conservative Leadership Debate: Who's the Next Premier of Alberta?

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

So just to clarify TransAlta ponied up the cash, not Dinning himself.

I could never vote for someone who wants to turn back the clock on social issues (gay rights etc.) and puts Alberta's interests ahead of Canada's...not much better than the separtists in Quebec in my opinion.

Sure the cash was actually paid by TransAlta but the note of support doesn't really seem necessary.

The difference between Quebec seperatists and people who want to protect Albertas interests are different. Quebec seperatists have no desire to be part of Canada.

Looking after Albertas interests doesn't mean that we don't want anything to do with the rest of Canada but rather to ensure that Alberta doesn't get ripped off in some form like what happened with the National Energy Program under the Trudeau Liberals. After all with the Liberal leadership currently going on they are more than happy to bounce around a carbon tax idea, which more or less will be a tax on the oil industry and will hurt the Albertan economy.

I'm proud to be a Canadian, however, I'm sick of the west being treated like crap and want it to stop.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm voting for Morton because I agree with his ideas..his platform. To me he is a lot like Klein.

I think I already pointed that out...maybe you missed it.

I guess I must have... I think you said you were voting for him because people hated him several times, I wanted to figure out why that would be a factor at all. I wasn't the only one.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

Sure the cash was actually paid by TransAlta but the note of support doesn't really seem necessary.

The difference between Quebec seperatists and people who want to protect Albertas interests are different. Quebec seperatists have no desire to be part of Canada.

Looking after Albertas interests doesn't mean that we don't want anything to do with the rest of Canada but rather to ensure that Alberta doesn't get ripped off in some form like what happened with the National Energy Program under the Trudeau Liberals. After all with the Liberal leadership currently going on they are more than happy to bounce around a carbon tax idea, which more or less will be a tax on the oil industry and will hurt the Albertan economy.

I'm proud to be a Canadian, however, I'm sick of the west being treated like crap and want it to stop.

Well the way it was represented earlier it sounded like Dinning took $25k of his own and paid it to the Liberals...and sending a note of support to a Lib doesn't sound like a big deal to me...

I may be in a minority here, but the health of the Alberta energy sector is not the most important thing in the world and if a leader proposed a policy that wasn't favorable to the energy sector but had a net benefit to the environment, public health or other sectors of the economy I would take a look at it.

Also, leaving the NEP aside (it was ****ing 20+ years ago!) what has Ottawa done to treat Alberta like crap?

[Cheese]

Worlds smallest political quiz

and no im not a part of that organization...just interested to see how many conservatives might be liberal....or other.

Liberals usually embrace freedom of choice in personal matters,
but tend to support significant government control of the economy.
They generally support a government-funded "safety net" to help
the disadvantaged, and advocate strict regulation of business.
Liberals tend to favor environmental regulations, defend civil liberties
and free expression, support government action to promote equality,
and tolerate diverse lifestyles.


Conservatives tend to favor economic freedom, but frequently
support laws to restrict personal behavior that violates "traditional
values." They oppose excessive government control of business, while
endorsing government action to defend morality and the traditional
family structure. Conservatives usually support a strong military,
oppose bureaucracy and high taxes, favor a free-market economy,
and endorse strong law enforcement.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Also, leaving the NEP aside (it was ****ing 20+ years ago!) what has Ottawa done to treat Alberta like crap?

I'm guessing you weren't here 20+ years ago. I don't think you would dismiss the NEP so lightly if you were here in the early 1980s.

As for what Ottawa has done to treat Alberta like crap lately, let me reach into the hat and pull something out. Ah yes, here's a good one. During the last referendumb, Chretien told us the best contribution we could make to the debate was to sit down, shut up and keep our views to ourselves. Or how about Martin villifying Alberta for politcal gain during the last two federal elections. Gun control wasn't exactly a chart topper here either. Of course there's always those paper bags of money that always seem to end up on the tables of the Liberals eastern cronies ... I'd like a little of that action myself. Or how about this one ... have you ever noticed how much federal advertising for crown corps like Canada Post, VIA, etc., appears on the rink boards for the Leafs, Sens and Canadiens. Maybe it's just the camera angles, but I've never noticed those ads on the boards in Edmonton or Calgary. Shall I go on?

[Hakan]

As for what Ottawa has done to treat Alberta like crap lately, let me reach into the hat and pull something out. Ah yes, here's a good one. During the last referendumb, Chretien told us the best contribution we could make to the debate was to sit down, shut up and keep our views to ourselves. Or how about Martin villifying Alberta for politcal gain during the last two federal elections. Gun control wasn't exactly a chart topper here either. Of course there's always those paper bags of money that always seem to end up on the tables of the Liberals eastern cronies ... I'd like a little of that action myself. Or how about this one ... have you ever noticed how much federal advertising for crown corps like Canada Post, VIA, etc., appears on the rink boards for the Leafs, Sens and Canadiens. Maybe it's just the camera angles, but I've never noticed those ads on the boards in Edmonton or Calgary. Shall I go on?

Classic.

So the worst you can come up with is politicians saying bad names and some other province being the beneficiary of corruption. If you think Alberta gets a bad run because of the bad words then I'd hate to see what you think about the way Atlantic Canada gets treated by politicians from Alberta (Harper).

As per the scandal, that's more the entire federation getting screwed instead of just Alberta meaning that Alberta isn't signled out at all.

Nice try. This whole poor Alberta act is frickin hilarious. Keep 'em coming.

[Kobasew fan]

Just thought everyone might like to look at this website for Jim Dinning.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Classic.

So the worst you can come up with is politicians saying bad names and some other province being the beneficiary of corruption. If you think Alberta gets a bad run because of the bad words then I'd hate to see what you think about the way Atlantic Canada gets treated by politicians from Alberta (Harper).

As per the scandal, that's more the entire federation getting screwed instead of just Alberta meaning that Alberta isn't signled out at all.

Nice try. This whole poor Alberta act is frickin hilarious. Keep 'em coming.

Your rebuttal fails to correspond rationally to any of the points I stated, while at the same time it seems to respond to some points I didn't make.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Kobasew fan

Just thought everyone might like to look at this website for Jim Dinning.

Weak...It insinuates that he donated the $25k...it was TransAlta

And no I wasn't here 26 years ago for the NEP, but it was 26 years ago! I know that there was also a major recession across Canada at that time that was probably made worse in Alberta by the NEP...but holy crap 26 years dude! Are you still ****ed at the Hudson's Bay Company for the fur scandal of 1849?

The slight by Jean, the gun registry, the *snicker* lack of VIA ads are truly horrible.

Alberta is a leader within Canada and has a lot to be proud of, but like Hakan says this 'poor Alberta' attitude is IMO freaking hilarious.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

And no I wasn't here 26 years ago for the NEP, but it was 26 years ago!

It may seem silly to not let go after 26 years, but when you, your friends and your neighbours lost houses and had marriages breakup from the financial and emotional stress caused by the NEP, it leaves a scar. I understand that means nothing to those who didn't go through it, but don't make fun of those who did and find it hard to forgive.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

It may seem silly to not let go after 26 years, but when you, your friends and your neighbours lost houses and had marriages breakup from the financial and emotional stress caused by the NEP, it leaves a scar. I understand that means nothing to those who didn't go through it, but don't make fun of those who did and find it hard to forgive.

You're right I shouldn't be making light of a dark chapter in many Albertans past, for that I apologize. My bad.

However, I still believe that the NEP hangover may be clouding peoples judgement (OMG it is a Liberal get my rifle!). And I also believe that Dinning is the best choice for economic diversification (I haven't anything by Morton and Stalmech), which is Alberta's best hedge against the inevitable decline in energy prices.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

However, I still believe that the NEP hangover may be clouding peoples judgement (OMG it is a Liberal get my rifle!).

Nah ... the NEP doesn't have much to do with that. Shootin' Liberals is pure sport for some of us.

[Sharpen 'Em]

I'm a centre/left type of a guy and today I voted for a Conservative! Talk about a strange feeling.

This article helped convince me to get out there and put down my five bucks.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ORY02/TPStory/

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Sharpen 'Em

I'm a centre/left type of a guy and today I voted for a Conservative! Talk about a strange feeling.

This article helped convince me to get out there and put down my five bucks.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ORY02/TPStory/

The sad thing is all you guys are falling for it. No conservative, moderate or otherwise would actually follow through with this... especially Mr. 20% cuts to everything, no exceptions Dinning. You're better off saving your $5, and voting Taft or Mason when the actual election comes.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Kobasew fan

Just thought everyone might like to look at this website for Jim Dinning.

I wonder who makes that website. If it's one of the other candidates, then that's pretty low.
It amazes me that all they have to do to ruin another Conservatives reputation, is call them liberal.
Even just a liberal supporting Dinning, is enough to scare some conservatives away from him. That's a pretty odd reason to vote or not vote for a certain candidate.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by [LEFT

Fozzie[/left]_

DeBear

;663411]
Also, leaving the NEP aside (it was ****ing 20+ years ago!) what has Ottawa done to treat Alberta like crap?

Historical Grievances:
-CPR. Freight rates were 50% more expensive in the west. Also 2/3 of it's traffic was out here yet only 1/3 of it's employees were
-Unequal status upon entering confederation. Only Saskatchewan and Alberta weren't given their resource rights upon joining Canada
-Protectionism. Historical Canadian tariffs have almost always benefited eastern manufacturers while harming the natural resource based economies of the west
-Guess which is the only province that was allowed to default on it's debt? (Provincial debt has always been Federally protected, except for Alberta.)
-The development of the oil industry. The Federal government refused to support the early oil industry in the west. Naturally, Alberta went Stateside to get start up capital. One of the main 'reasons' for the NEP? To Canadianize the Alberta oil industry.
-Oil export taxes. Eastern Canada refuses to buy western oil because it is cheaper to get it shipped in from the mid-east (this makes sense and doesn't bother me). So instead buying oil from the west, they taxed the exports.
-The NEP
-FIRA

Current Grievances
-Equalization payments. $11.1B this year. $147B since the inception of this program
-Taxes. We pay low taxes. Canadians pay high taxes. An example of Canadian priorities not being the same as Albertans
-Debt. We have no debt. The Canadian debt is quite high. Basically the same as above.
-The Senate. Unelected. Unequal.Ineffective .
-Gun Control.
-Forced Bilingualism. Anyone want to guess how much this costs Canada. Anyone else want to guess who benefits from this?
-Unfair representation. Due to the 'Grandfather clause' Alberta and the west is underrepresented in the House of Commons. To say nothing of the Senate.
-Canada Wheat Board. Eastern farmers can sell their product to the highest bidder. Western farmers can sell to the CWB or go to jail.
-Kyoto. Loved by the east. Devastating for the west (remember that resource based economy thing)

I'm sure if I think for a few minutes I could come up with a few more. If you are confused by any, just ask. I can clarify anything in greater detail as I just wrote snippets.

[eazyduzzit]

I'm debating between Morton and Dinning.

Probably go with Morton i like his position on things.

Health care needs reform and if a few private clinics are open for those who wish to pay - then so be it. A few private clincs certinly isn't going to strip the public system of all it's doctors.

Let's face it, rich people get better everything. Cars, clothes, houses, shoes, you name it. If they want to pay for quicker and private health care, then so be it. That way it will unclog the public system making my wait less. The mentality of holding those who succeed back with the rest of everyone else just isn't right. Lots of people work really hard to get to where they are, and if they are in the position to pay for quicker service (notice how i say quicker and not better) then they have every right to do that.

No way if a few private clinics open, it's going to strip the entire public sector of good doctors, this argument is just ridiculous.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Dinning has been in an awkward position over the last week. He needs to attack Morton to rejuvenate his base and to scare some potential Stelmach voters into his camp. Also he wants to secure the 2nd preference choice of most Stelmach voters...however, he cannot attack Morton enough to drop Morton to 3rd place and allow Stelmach to come in 2nd place to Dinning because as long as Stelmach is in the top 2 (no matter who the opponent is...Dinning or Morton) he will win. Dinning has been unable to walk this strategic tight rope and looked pretty rattled during the debate.

[Azure]

Yes, scare tactics...they always work.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

No Offence but the concept of forcing folks to work here for 10 years has two massive problems.

1. How exactly do you police that and who will pay for it?
2. Do you think that it would take 1 year or 2 years for all of the medical programs in university colleges and university to be destroyed?

There isnt a police force but you would bill them more, there would be tuition cost for staying and tuition for leaving.

If they want to leave, let them leave but you try to make is as financially unattractive as it is to stay.

With the shortage of spots for medical school - my brother had a 3.8GPA coming out of UofA mathmatics major and count get into medical school - I dont think we would have a problem of them going to other provinces since medical school isnt really a money maker for Universities - if people want to leave cayuse they may be charged more if they leave then let them leave - they obviously dont care enoguh about Alberta so let em go and may the massive amounts in the states - umm I dont thinks so.

MYK