Suzuki ready to hang em up

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I'm sorry but I can't help your lack of understanding of resource management nor of the lack of sufficient resources committed to our navy by the government(almost entirely during Liberal party reign) to enforce our management of those resources.

The actual environment those fish live in not even being addressed.

The problem a whole lot bigger than just the environment.

Funding the Navy isn't going to replenish atlantic cod populations. Having an environmental policy that aims to do so will.

The navy isn't the issue here. Environmental policy that seriously prevents overfishing by both canadian and foreign fishers is. The navy is implementation side. What good is the navy if there is no mandate to protect the fisheries in the first place? Hell, if the navy is your issue, maybe you should adopt environmentalism as a way to faciliate the proper funding of our Navy so we can actually implement some sort of conservation effort.

I don't understand what this has to do with your inexplicable dislike of David Suzuki. I guess it's easier to cry about an issue than to actually try and learn about it.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

1. Reduce home energy by 10%
2. Eat meat-free meals once a week
3. Buy a fuel efficient, low-polluting car
4. Choose an energy efficient home and appliances
5. Stop using pesticides
6. Walk, bike or take transit to regular destinations
7. Prepare your meals with locally produced food
8. Choose a home close to regular destinations
9. Support alternatives to the car
10. Get involved, stay informed



Which of those are impossible, in the real world? You crab about how you can't do this because "in the real world, money is limited" but every one of those suggestions actually saves you money, in the real world.

I took them directly from his site. His advice is to pick three of them and do them for a year. Not quite giving up on the modern world, is it?

Is it just coincidence that #8 doesn't have a link?

That tip is directly hypicritical of his living situation.

Some of the others (3,4) require more money than most people have as disposable income. Hybrids are still too much money. Not everyone can go out and drop money at futureshop on the oven that uses less energy, but also costs twice as much. And no, the arguement that you save money on your electic bill over time does not count as valid.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

Basically yes, I'm dismissing the worth of these awards. He got them from people that think the same way he does...So yes within that community of thinkers, he's done things outstanding - but not everyone thinks the way environtmentalists do.

So you think science awards awarded by scientists are invalid. Okay.

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

it seems your asking because you're out of topic specific arguements and are beginning to generalize...

No I'm not. I'm really wondering. If you think something is good for you, you do it for yourself, not because someone else does or does not follow their own advice. What you are saying is akin to "my doctor told me to quit smoking, but he smokes, so forget him".

[White Doors]

The Atlantic fisheries is a complicated mess. Logging is not a bad thing for the environment at all if done properly which it almost always is.

Logging companies are a red herring. I'm all for pro-environmental policies once the rhetoric is dropped. High gas prices are a good thing in my opinion for this reason.

Billions in venture capital went into alternate energy start-ups over the past year. That will change things quicker than anything else. It's got to hurt people in the pocket book.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

So you think science awards awarded by scientists are invalid. Okay.



No I'm not. I'm really wondering. If you think something is good for you, you do it for yourself, not because someone else does or does not follow their own advice. What you are saying is akin to "my doctor told me to quit smoking, but he smokes, so forget him".

Unfortunately we're not talking about smoking, we're talking about living on a private island a large distance from the place they visit on a regular basis, while telling people it's the wrong thing to do. I'm not sure how you could possible defend this...

and invalid is the wrong word, and you know that. Some peoples perspective differs from the one environmentalists have, and therefore the criteria used to choose who recieves an award is essentially a moot point.

[anyonebutedmonton]

Why dont all you hippies just shut up... you live in a province that uses natural resources to profit... If you want to stop just move someplace else, Ive heard Tofino is really nice...

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

Unfortunately we're not talking about smoking, we're talking about living on a private island a large distance from the place they visit on a regular basis, while telling people it's the wrong thing to do. I'm not sure how you could possible defend this...

I'm not defending it. I don't even know if it's true. I'm saying that if he is a hypocrite that doesn't change anything for you or I.

If he says "don't use so much gas" and I know he's right and we should use less gas, I'm not going to drive more if I find out he drives a Hummer. The message "use less gas" is still valid even if he doesn't follow it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by fotze

The environmentalists are winning this thread, I am feeling my radar move slightly leftward.

I do everyone of those things except 10 and I onw two cars but rarely drive them.

I think the problem is that the big ones tend to be less convienient or cost the most money. i.e. having a house closer to work, people don't like to choose to have a smaller house for the same money or the same house for more money.

Everyone wants someone else to foot the bill for the environment like the big bad boogeyman oil company, or government or their neighbor. THe best and I believe ONLY way to do it is to stick everyone right in their pocketbook for polluting.

Charge per pound for garbage pickup .....

Ahhh I already see a billion holes in my arguments, no use carrying on...

Actually, you're right.

The only way to encourage large scale change is by making alternatives more viable economically, or, better yet, costly to continue at the same rate.

This is something I've never understood about alberta. Beautiful country with vast resources of wealth. Why people wouldn't put up solar panels for instance, a small, single expendiature, that would take care of some or all or more than the energy the use just doesn't make sense to me.

Why wouldn't albertans want to sell as much oil as possible elsewhere and use the money they get from it to make their lives better, instead of being some of the most inefficient users of energy in the country. Less resources used by albertans = more to sell elsewhere = more money. Calgary and Edmonton are two perfect environments to be testing and implementing lots alternative forms of energy that could be used throughout canada.

Why wouldn't people out in airdrie want to put in composting toilets and insulated electrical lines and not have to pay the fees to get that all hooked up? Why wouldn't the people in calgary proper want to implement the same thing in Airdrie, rather than see their property taxes skyrocket to pay for that urban sprawl?

It's this unbelievable thick-headedness about 'tree huggers' that's stifling huge, diverse growth in the province.

This is what Suzuki is saying. Government has to be serious about making these things available to Canadians. If green industry was as heavily subsidized as the energy industry, there would be no contest. Harper even removed the tax credit for putting in green technologies into your house. That's so backwards I had a hard time believing it.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by anyonebutedmonton

Why dont all you hippies just shut up... you live in a province that uses natural resources to profit... If you want to stop just move someplace else, Ive heard Tofino is really nice...

We were having a pretty good discussion until you showed up with your insults.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Where do you live, on the moon? You can't walk anywhere? There is no transit system?

Nobody is saying you have to run out and buy a new set of appliances and a new car.

Unless you plan on keeping the current car you are driving for the rest of your life, then you can certainly buy a car that is more fuel efficient. I'll explain how -- next time you buy a car, buy one that is fuel efficient. Now was that so hard?

And don't give me this "I can't afford a fuel efficient car" nonsense. The cheap cars aren't the gas guzzlers.

The same thing holds for appliances -- next time you need one, get one that is energy efficient. They are cheaper too.

You seem to have some idea in your head that using less costs more. That doesn't make sense.

You know one year there sonny I bought a car for $300. Used it to drive the 25 minutes to work each and every day. Want to know how long I could use that car before it made sense to pay for a nice new car! Do you know that some of us don't buy new cars or is that too hard a concept for you? Do you know that some people buy appliances that are on sale and yeah we pick the best efficient one we can afford like everybody else does.

Ever wonder why everybody just dosen't go out and buy a new fuel efficient car -- Heck it would save them money on fuel -- what is wrong with them?

Why don't they buy new appliances as well when their old ones die -- Are they too freakin cheap to do so?

Heck and why don't they take a bus that takes them over an hour to work and back ---Just too fricken lazy I guess. Why can't they just walk to work --who the frick cares if their kids are on their own before and after school --- let them leave early and walk.

Fart what a freakin joke.

Oh I forgot the house --yeah why don't them cheap dumb environmentally unfriendly dufii buy a house close to downtown so they can walk. Fart do you live on the planet?

[anyonebutedmonton]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm not defending it. I don't even know if it's true. I'm saying that if he is a hypocrite that doesn't change anything for you or I.

If he says "don't use so much gas" and I know he's right and we should use less gas, I'm not going to drive more if I find out he drives a Hummer. The message "use less gas" is still valid even if he doesn't follow it.

This topic isn't about the validity of conserving energy etc... Its about David Suzuki's retirement... Just because he says things that are true doesn't makehim some environmental god...

[Cheese]

David Suzuki and his family (he, his wife, and two of their kids) produce only one bag of garbage per month; reusing or recycling everything else.

Thats a pretty incredible undertaking....I have one child that makes more garbage that that in a day.

[Engine09]

1. Reduce home energy by 10%

I rent an apartment, but keep a close eye on the thermostat.

2. Eat meat-free meals once a week

Don't eat meat at all.

3. Buy a fuel efficient, low-polluting car

Got rid of my pickup last year, my next vehicle will be a smaller 2 door car.

4. Choose an energy efficient home and appliances

Definitely, when I'm in the market.

5. Stop using pesticides

Don't really use any.

6. Walk, bike or take transit to regular destinations

I walk 15 mins and take the bus to get to work. I get my workout done by runnign hoem at teh end of the day.

7. Prepare your meals with locally produced food

Have to think about that, I do shop at Community Foods, a lot of their stock comes from Western Canada.

8. Choose a home close to regular destinations

No doubt, commuting 1 hour to work each way is my idea of hell. I'd rather continue rentign than live in the suberbs.

9. Support alternatives to the car

Well, I ride a motorbike in the Summer. Burns much less fuel than a car.

10. Get involved, stay informed

Trying to.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by Cheese

David Suzuki and his family (he, his wife, and two of their kids) produce only one bag of garbage per month; reusing or recycling everything else.

Thats a pretty incredible undertaking....I have one child that makes more garbage that that in a day.

Do they reuse diapers or something?

That is seriously impressive though. Off the top of my head I'd have to think that means no packaging of products bought (Im sure they grow a lot of their own stuff), and no toilet paper(sounds funny but that stuff adds up).

[anyonebutedmonton]

Originally Posted by Kryzsky

1. Reduce home energy by 10%

I rent an apartment, but keep a close eye on the thermostat.

2. Eat meat-free meals once a week

Don't eat meat at all.

3. Buy a fuel efficient, low-polluting car

Got rid of my pickup last year, my next vehicle will be a smaller 2 door car.

4. Choose an energy efficient home and appliances

Definitely, when I'm in the market.

5. Stop using pesticides

Don't really use any.

6. Walk, bike or take transit to regular destinations

I walk 15 mins and take the bus to get to work. I get my workout done by runnign hoem at teh end of the day.

7. Prepare your meals with locally produced food

Have to think about that, I do shop at Community Foods, a lot of their stock comes from Western Canada.

8. Choose a home close to regular destinations

No doubt, commuting 1 hour to work each way is my idea of hell. I'd rather continue rentign than live in the suberbs.

9. Support alternatives to the car

Well, I ride a motorbike in the Summer. Burns much less fuel than a car.

10. Get involved, stay informed

Trying to.

You're my HERO !!!!

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Actually, you're right.

The only way to encourage large scale change is by making alternatives more viable economically, or, better yet, costly to continue at the same rate.

This is something I've never understood about alberta. Beautiful country with vast resources of wealth. Why people wouldn't put up solar panels for instance, a small, single expendiature, that would take care of some or all or more than the energy the use just doesn't make sense to me.

Why wouldn't albertans want to sell as much oil as possible elsewhere and use the money they get from it to make their lives better, instead of being some of the most inefficient users of energy in the country. Less resources used by albertans = more to sell elsewhere = more money. Calgary and Edmonton are two perfect environments to be testing and implementing lots alternative forms of energy that could be used throughout canada.

Why wouldn't people out in airdrie want to put in composting toilets and insulated electrical lines and not have to pay the fees to get that all hooked up? Why wouldn't the people in calgary proper want to implement the same thing in Airdrie, rather than see their property taxes skyrocket to pay for that urban sprawl?

It's this unbelievable thick-headedness about 'tree huggers' that's stifling huge, diverse growth in the province.

This is what Suzuki is saying. Government has to be serious about making these things available to Canadians. If green industry was as heavily subsidized as the energy industry, there would be no contest. Harper even removed the tax credit for putting in green technologies into your house. That's so backwards I had a hard time believing it.

LOL so out to lunch. How much will the solar panels and the composting toilet and the wiring cost me and don't forget the labor if you could actually find somebody to do the work. Then after you have calculated the cost could you tell me where in my budget I should find the money. I have a mortage, four kids and many an expense. Money must grow on the trees you love so much for you. Why do I get the feeling you don't have any financial concerns and don't give a crap about who would pay for all this or are you doing the usual pay for it on the back of the lower middle class?

[anyonebutedmonton]

I found a book we should all read:

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Actually, you're right.

The only way to encourage large scale change is by making alternatives more viable economically, or, better yet, costly to continue at the same rate.

This is something I've never understood about alberta. Beautiful country with vast resources of wealth. Why people wouldn't put up solar panels for instance, a small, single expendiature, that would take care of some or all or more than the energy the use just doesn't make sense to me.

Why wouldn't albertans want to sell as much oil as possible elsewhere and use the money they get from it to make their lives better, instead of being some of the most inefficient users of energy in the country. Less resources used by albertans = more to sell elsewhere = more money. Calgary and Edmonton are two perfect environments to be testing and implementing lots alternative forms of energy that could be used throughout canada.

Flash, I need to first say that I enjoy a large portion of the posts you make at CP, however this is one of the most uninformed arguements I've ever read. The export price of natural resources is set by an international standard (in the case of oil, OPEC). Albertans do not save a dime because of the resources that exist in the province. Gas prices are lower in Ontairo than Alberta right now. Nevermind the US.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

You know one year there sonny I bought a car for $300. Used it to drive the 25 minutes to work each and every day. Want to know how long I could use that car before it made sense to pay for a nice new car! Do you know that some of us don't buy new cars or is that too hard a concept for you? Do you know that some people buy appliances that are on sale and yeah we pick the best efficient one we can afford like everybody else does.

Who said anything about buying a 'new' car? Buy a '92 civi and enjoy over 30 miles to the gallon. My dad's 93 accord averages 42 mpg driving between calgary and vancouver.

Why don't they buy new appliances as well when their old ones die -- Are they too freakin cheap to do so?

Energy star appliances cost roughly 30 dollars more on the sticker price than the appliance that isn't. That's about 6 weeks worth of energy saving.

Oh I forgot the house --yeah why don't them cheap dumb environmentally unfriendly dufii buy a house close to downtown so they can walk. Fart do you live on the planet?

Do the math on the cost of insurance, upkeep and gas relative to the extra cost of living closer. If it doesn't make economic sense, don't do it. Just insulate your house more and you'll still save money.

[anyonebutedmonton]

we should all live like this guy

http://www.varley.net/Pages/images/V...%20SF%2002.jpg

then we would barely use any energy