Homework Is Killing Kids

[return to the red]

I am surprised that not one person has brought up the physical effects (besides gastrointestinal) that all this homework is having on kids. Two and a half hours of homework a night also cuts into the whole excercise and physical well being routine.

When I was a younger minimal amount of homework was done and after that it was outside to play street hockey or whatever. I would come in at night just exhausted, clear mind and get a good nights sleep and start fresh the next day, ready to learn.

Now you have Children doing homework and then staright to bed? What happens when they are having difficulty? I know when I try to sleep with a problem on my mind I have a tremendous time falling asleep and feel like Hell the next day

[ericschand]

"You have two numbers whose mean is 11. When you add a third number the mean is 15. What is the third number?"

"[math]...but what is the point of what you are trying to do?"

Look at the top question.
Then read the second quote, by Phanutheir.
What is the point? So I can find the mean of 3 numbers, however,
what does that give me? Is there a point to this?

I went through school in the 70's and early 80's. I can tell you
back then the problem was the same. A generic description of
the problem, solve it. What is it good for? Who cares, you gotta
know it to pass. Just do it over and over.

Read some of the other complaints. Boredom, 1.5 hours of homework,
most of which is like the above. Feelings of futility as you don't get the
basic concept, then you get more crammed into you. More boredom,
followed by embarrassment or despair as you really have no clue, you
are just going through the motions.

I only have a 4 year-old now, but as early as last January, I had
her doing basic math (+/-), so at the age of 3 (just don't let her
run out of fingers and toes :-). One thing I immediately noticed was
that if it wasn't made interesting, she hated it. I could ask her
simply, if you have 5 and you want 8, how many more do you need?

She would get annoyed and eventually tell me 3, but wasn't happy
doing so. After all, from her point of view, what's the point?

However, cutting up a cookie, and asking, here's 5 pieces, how many
do you want? "I want 8!" Ok, then how many more should I give you?
Instant zeal in figuring out 3, because then she got 3 more. Or the
reverse, if you have 8, I'm going to take either 3 of them or 5 of them.
Which do you prefer? And she'll sit and figure out 3, because then
she gets more. :-) [she did the subtraction vs looking at piles of
cookie]

I can see her doing the math while shopping to see if she's spent
her $5 this time. Or while watching some kids show on TV.

I remember continuously having to put math problems into stories
or situations for my (ex-)step-daughter and step-son. Grades 4
through 7. They get pages of homework with (11+52-69)/3=____
Then they sit and sulk because they've been there 2 hours and
I didn't allow a calculator, but "the teacher says it's ok!" (???? figure
that one out) And they are still only half way done. Talk to the
teacher, and she says that the calculator helps them get it done
faster. (????) But they have no idea what they are doing, except
pressing buttons, to which I get a warning look. Do you know
how many "incomplete" assignments they took to that teacher? I
could only make sure they seemed to understand, and allowed the
calculator into the tests so they could actually pass.

Anyways, the concepts are there, even from early on, it's just
that if you make it boring, it will be boring. And once they
get bored, how the heck do you tell them this time it will
be interesting? And I know that I despise boring. And after
8 years of boredom in school, where do you think they are at?

ers

[redforever]

With math, if she is struggling with a concept, I need to go through three, four, five different "look at it differently" techniques before I hit one that computes. She sees all the words in an problem and it takes a long time for her to decide which parts of the problem are important and which are not and in which order they need go.

U later go on to say, once she understands the concept, she can do it every time after that. The problem then is with her reading skills, not with her math skills. I am a former math teacher and ran into this all the time.

You can take all kinds of approaches, tell her to break down the words, then break down the numbers you are given, then what are you trying to find the answer to, put down what you are given, put down what you need, what tool box do you need to get from point A to point B....

BUT, unless they can read the problem in the logical sequence mentioned above, it will not help. Once they break thru the reading barrier, the math follows.

We dont all read and decode what we read in the same way. I would suggest that a tutor to improve reading skills would go a long way with your daughter. AND have you actually had her reading skills tested? That too might help determine exactly how she reads. Once you know that, it might make it easier to tackle not only math but all of her subjects. Personally, I would have her reading skills tested first and then on the basis of that, determine your next step in helping your daughter.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

We are currently saving every nickel so our son can go to Montessori for a while. I've heard nothing but praise for their system.

Saving every nickel? I've kicked around the idea but never considered it would be all that expensive. Woops.

What are we talking here in Calgary?

[troutman]

I think students need to be taught how to study independently.

I've seen a number of very bright people do poorly in the first year of university, because they were not challenged enough in high school, and don't have the skills to study on their own.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by troutman

I think students need to be taught how to study independently.

I've seen a number of very bright people do poorly in the first year of university, because they were not challenged enough in high school, and don't have the skills to study on their own.

That was me.

I think school should teach 3 things:

1 - to think (not necessarily how or what to think)
2 - to work
3 - to prepare you for life (which I suppose is all about thinking and working)

The schools I am familiar with are bloody dismal at all 3 IMO.

If you're bright you never have to work
If you're willing to work you never have to think

And either way school has about as much to with life as professional wrestling.

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by redforever

U later go on to say, once she understands the concept, she can do it every time after that. The problem then is with her reading skills, not with her math skills. I am a former math teacher and ran into this all the time.

You can take all kinds of approaches, tell her to break down the words, then break down the numbers you are given, then what are you trying to find the answer to, put down what you are given, put down what you need, what tool box do you need to get from point A to point B....

BUT, unless they can read the problem in the logical sequence mentioned above, it will not help. Once they break thru the reading barrier, the math follows.

We dont all read and decode what we read in the same way. I would suggest that a tutor to improve reading skills would go a long way with your daughter. AND have you actually had her reading skills tested? That too might help determine exactly how she reads. Once you know that, it might make it easier to tackle not only math but all of her subjects. Personally, I would have her reading skills tested first and then on the basis of that, determine your next step in helping your daughter.

You may be on to something here. Reading has always been a chore for her. She would much rather be outside doing something, anything. The best way that I've found to engage her reading is with magazines. I think she reads and look at the pictures to decipher the paragraph. She needs more than words to decode the sentences. It's not that she can't read - she can but it doesn't mean anything significant. It's just words. She loves it when I read to her, because I can string the sentences together so her mind forms the picture.

Usually, (although not always) the trigger for math is a visual aid, so that would confirm this idea.

Unfortunately, I live in a small rural community where tutors are impossible to find. Maybe I'll check out some alternatives on line. There might be programs available.

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Pft, "toughest high school" just wait till university

I went to your rival school SWC, was in IB, and some of the dumbest of my peers would be above average in IB.

I think you confuse homework with understanding. If you have no idea what your doing, then yes you should be studying. You study until you understand it, there's no point in putting a time limit on it.

What I object to is the "here is how you do derivatives, now do questions 1 to 250" - you got to be joking. After the 5th time, I think I know what I'm doing. Understanding enables innovation, but repeition kills creativity. That's the buttom line for homework.

In university (engineering, at least... 4th year) you do a total of 15 total questions (worth assignments) before you write your midterm, and 25 total questions before you write your final exam. If your lucky, you get examples. I don't get any examples in one of my classes (plasma physics) just theory, so your left to decifer what this linear algabra within partial differential equations is supposed to physically mean (its not "just math" but you have to know what those damn equations mean, and where they come from). Not to mention it takes an hour to do one question too.

A couple coarses in university I don't have to study for (logic... economics... volts for dolts... teaching engineers about management) ... but almost everything else, I do.

Study until you understand it. Give it a whirl or two. But once you know it, no point beating down the same path, or else your just a monkey jumping through a hoop.

Bah, Western is a very tough school relative to other high schools in Calgary, I wasn't comparing it to university.

And I'm currently in half-IB (social and English) and it isn't easy at all, my social studies teacher dishes out at least 2 hours of homework a night, and I ususally get around 1 hour for math. Thank god I have Social Studies and English in different semesters or I might have had to kill myself.

[Clarkey]

What is 'IB' program anyway? I remember people being in it in high school. Aren't they the same courses just more challenging and requiring a higher work load? What is the reason for them? Are Universities more likely to take in 'IB' students?

[Ch40s]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

What is 'IB' program anyway? I remember people being in it in high school. Aren't they the same courses just more challenging and requiring a higher work load? What is the reason for them? Are Universities more likely to take in 'IB' students?

International baccalaureate. It's a higher level course, with the same concepts. For example, in physics, you'd learn how to apply an equation with both IB and normal classes, but in IB the problems, after learning the application, were much tougher and required more thought. There are also, in some subjects, more concepts throughout the course, as in more units that must be completed.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

What is 'IB' program anyway? I remember people being in it in high school. Aren't they the same courses just more challenging and requiring a higher work load? What is the reason for them? Are Universities more likely to take in 'IB' students?

Yeah, you are much more likely to get accepted into the Ivy Leagues in the states if you do IB.

[redforever]

You may be on to something here. Reading has always been a chore for her. She would much rather be outside doing something, anything. The best way that I've found to engage her reading is with magazines. I think she reads and look at the pictures to decipher the paragraph. She needs more than words to decode the sentences. It's not that she can't read - she can but it doesn't mean anything significant. It's just words. She loves it when I read to her, because I can string the sentences together so her mind forms the picture.

Usually, (although not always) the trigger for math is a visual aid, so that would confirm this idea.

Unfortunately, I live in a small rural community where tutors are impossible to find. Maybe I'll check out some alternatives on line. There might be programs available

I live in the country too. First place to check is your school. Once I had my children and moved to the country, I no longer taught for money. BUT I did volunteer my services as a tutor at the school my children attended. The school my children attended had such a program set up. It worked one of 2 ways.

1. U went to the school and tutored the child in some given room. The parent then came and picked up the child from the school. Usually twice a week is a good number, of course, if special projects, tests, assignments come up, u try and offer more of your time.

2. The child came to your house on the bus, along with your own children. Then the parents would pick the child up at the tutors house. This is how I worked it, cause then I never had to arrange for babysitting while I tutored the child.

In either case, it is important that your child have a bit of a recess and a snack before they start the tutoring session. By the end of the school day, they are tired too. And depending on your child, it might be better for you child to have tutoring sessions before the school day starts, when they are still fresh and energetic. Only u know your child. Are they a morning or an evening type of personality cause that too influences how you learn.

NOW, I dont know what type of people live in your area, what skills they have. I would think you would want someone to help with both the math and the reading. However, first start with an assessment of your child. Every school division has people with these type of skills, not enuf of course, but they either have them or can refer you to someone or some agency that can help.

If you have no help starting there, then go to your child's physician. Often they can get your child referred to perhaps the Alberta Children's hospital. The tests done there are top of the line and they can really pinpoint a problem if it exists.

And by the way, there is absolutely nothing wrong with reading magazines. It might be that your child can master things better short term rather than long term. And if that is the case, you gotta start short. So let them read magazines, comic books, whatever. Reading is reading. It does not have to be quantum physics that they read.

Keep in mind too that many children with learning difficulties have to learn by using more than one sense. So, reading the problem is ok, it uses sight. BUT, try and introduce something else. So perhaps, have the child not just read the problem, but say it out loud too. And incorporate having them writing sort of lists. Have them try and pick out the key components of problems and write them down. The more senses you use, the better.

And I will horrify a lot of people here, but add music to the mix. Contrary to what most think, music aids learning. Music also relaxes and takes the edge off. Music does not have to distract. Some of course cant add too many things to the mix, they get overloaded. BUT many benefit from having their favorite music playing QUIETLY in the background. However, it should not overpower the learning environment.

I would rather suspect that your child is not good at multi tasking either. So start slowly, try adding many senses and other aids to the learning mix and go from there. You sound like a very supportive parent, your child is lucky!!!

[Flames2007FIRE IT UP]

The whole point of school is learning how to learn. That should be more of a goal of our school system.

[Flames2007FIRE IT UP]

A quick note about IB and AP programs. Most students in those programs are applying to university programs with the goal of getting into professional schools (ie-medicine, law) or their primary degree is a professional degree (Engineering or BComm). To get into med about 65% of you application is academic and the rest is personal attributes and how well rounded you are. If you are spending all of your time studying you will not get into medical school, you need to show other areas of interest and prove you are interested via volunteer work. For engineering and BComm it is based completely on high school marks, and it is way easier to do well on your regular curriculum vs your way more intense IB curriculum. On a side note, most of the people in my high school who did IB got slammed in first year university. Even though they had learned most of the material in high school they did not realize how tough the exams where at university. They also tended to skip more b/c no one at university would care and they thought they knew the material but they didn’t know it well enough.

[Flames2007FIRE IT UP]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Yeah, you are much more likely to get accepted into the Ivy Leagues in the states if you do IB.

You are much more likely to get into ivy league schools if you do well on the SAT, that is by far the most important factor.

[Flames2007FIRE IT UP]

Some very good points about the physical affects and health of our kids. The American Medical Association has said that children today (like the rest of the population) is more overweight and obese then any other generation on record. This is going to be a huge burden on the health care system in the years to come and these kids are going to have health problems like diabetes for the rest of their lives .

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Flames2007FIRE IT UP

You are much more likely to get into ivy league schools if you do well on the SAT, that is by far the most important factor.

Well yeah, but having IB on your transcript definately isn't going to hurt you.

[Flames2007FIRE IT UP]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Well yeah, but having IB on your transcript definately isn't going to hurt you.

It isn't going to help all that much either. You would be better off volunteering at the local hospital and doing community work then spending all of your time studying for IB. These are things that people actually look at and are major components of getting into Ivy League schools and generally for getting scholarships. The best case scenario is to do both, but the vast majority of students are not bright enough to get great marks in IB and have time to have a life.