U.N.: Israeli airstrike hits U.N. observer post

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Sounds reasonable. Good to see you're not ignoring the CBC.

I like the CBC website for their news. Its their shows that I can't stand.

[Azure]

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...fc6d50&k=55961

The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "shield" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.

Those words, written in an e-mail dated just nine days ago, offer a possible explanation as to why the post -- which according to UN officials was clearly marked and known to Israeli forces -- was hit by Israel on Tuesday night, said retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie yesterday...

Just last week, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener wrote an e-mail about his experiences after nine months in the area, words Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie said are an obvious allusion to Hezbollah tactics.

"What I can tell you is this," he wrote in an e-mail to CTV dated July 18. "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both (Israeli) artillery and aerial bombing.

"The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters (sic) of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters (sic) from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

Those words, particularly the last sentence, are not-so-veiled language indicating Israeli strikes were aimed at Hezbollah targets near the post, said Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie.

"What that means is, in plain English, 'We've got Hezbollah fighters running around in our positions, taking our positions here and then using us for shields and then engaging the (Israeli Defence Forces)," he said...

The UN post, he wrote in the e-mail, afforded a view of the "Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base."

"It appears that the lion's share of fighting between the IDF and Hezbollah has taken place in our area," he wrote, noting later it was too dangerous to venture out on patrols.

The e-mail appears to contradict the UN's claim there had been no Hezbollah activity in the vicinity of the strike.

[Azure]

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBu...20060726c.html

Haifa, Israel (CNSNews.com) - The four United Nations peacekeepers killed in an Israeli attack on their outpost were required to stay at that post "until they were ordered by the [U.N.] secretary general to withdraw," said a member of the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization on Wednesday.

But the peacekeepers apparently never received such an order, despite the fierce cross-border fighting that erupted in southern Lebanon two weeks ago.

The four peacekeepers -- from China, Austria, Canada and Finland -- had taken security precautions and were in a shelter under their bunker when they were killed, said Wicki Dieter, the chief plans officer for the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO).

[photon]

And those peacekeepers there to observe the disarming of Hezbollah and to observe the "Government of Lebanon to fully extend and exercise its sole and effective authority throughout the south, including through the deployment of sufficient numbers of Lebanese armed and security forces, to ensure a calm environment throughout the area, including along the Blue Line, and to exert control over the use of force on its territory and from it."

Sad no matter what way you look at it.

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't know if it's already been mentioned or not, but the U.N. observers apparently asked Israel 10 times to stop attacking them.

[Calgaryborn]

I suspect that it was intentual on Israel's part. If Hezbollah leadership has been useing the UN station as a shield and Israel had some intellegence that they were there I'm sure they would attack. This attack seemed to correspond to the first reports of deaths amonst the Hezbollah leadership. It wouldn't have been grunts that were hiding behind the UN flag while Israel was bombing everyone else.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I suspect that it was intentual on Israel's part. If Hezbollah leadership has been useing the UN station as a shield and Israel had some intellegence that they were there I'm sure they would attack. This attack seemed to correspond to the first reports of deaths amonst the Hezbollah leadership. It wouldn't have been grunts that were hiding behind the UN flag while Israel was bombing everyone else.

Israel would do anything possible to avoid killing the UN observers. What would they possibly have to gain from this....

Not only does it look bad, but the world is turning to the UN and NATO for a solution to this problem. Why would Israrel purposely **** them off now.

As for the warning ten times. Israel is coordinating hundreds of thousands of troops right now in a small area surrounded by buildings. Dont you think the more likely explanation is there was a mixup w/ coordinates or which troops were in what area?

Also please dont compare the situation of Palestinians to native americans. Jews were systematicallly removed from Israel everytime the population got too high and forced to live in isolated ghettos. The same thing happened to other minorities w/in the Ottaman empire (see Kurds, Berbers, Druze, BaHai, Copts etc..). 2/3 of Israelis come from the middle east and north africa (ie arab countries) and not Europe (ie they are not Ashkenazi).

[Looger]

Originally Posted by photon

There's a balanced source well respected in academia.. not a CT at all!

as i was referring to sources i had already named, that means shirer's master work 'rise and fall'.

...but thanks for trying!

[photon]

Originally Posted by Looger

as i was referring to sources i had already named, that means shirer's master work 'rise and fall'.

...but thanks for trying!

You mentioned both those books as references that are "virtually textbooks" in the same breath, I only commented on the one I knew anything about.

I haven't read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich but it looks interesting (and far more credible a resource at first blush).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

Israel would do anything possible to avoid killing the UN observers. What would they possibly have to gain from this....

The UN soldiers there were observers. Perhaps the Israelis didn't want anyone there to observe their tactics?

As well,ne of the oldest tactics in warfare is to cause damage to a bystander group in order to draw them in, or hasten their participation. Sometimes it is done through "stray" attacks, other times by economic means.

Not sure if Israel did that this time, but it happens in wars all the time.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by photon

You mentioned both those books as references that are "virtually textbooks" in the same breath, I only commented on the one I knew anything about.

I haven't read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich but it looks interesting (and far more credible a resource at first blush).

the AFOREMENTIONED "rise and fall fo the third reich"

quoted from my post. as in, something i HAD mentioned, not something i mentioned in the same post that i said 'aforementioned'.

and it is a hell of a book.

i warn you however. it has the closest version to truth possible, shirer was in germany in the 1920s and followed the entire war from europe, watching the nazis from the earliest days. book was written after he spent 20 years poring through the documents available from the day of the collapse, a historical oddity in many ways.

mentions the personal correspondance hitler had with zionist leadership - some similar goals.

the implications are serious of course - that zionist leaders were complicit in the slaughter of so many jews is not an idea to be treated lightly.
the idea that some of the guys that created israel had been complicit in the excuse for it - the holocaust - in order to further their own agenda may lead to all kinds of crazy ideas. and not just that hungary thing. that is chaff.

be warned - there are sick ****s out there that try to hide this very documented truth by labelling anyone who mentions it an anti-semite. in this thread i was accused when my post didn't even contain the word 'jew' - a startling revelation when one looks at the accusation.

the truth hurts.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Looger

i warn you however. it has the closest version to truth possible

In your opinion....

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Looger

read some books on the subject.

ralph shoenman's "the hidden history of zionism"

the AFOREMENTIONED "rise and fall fo the third reich"

oh nevermind. i mention books that are virtually textbooks and taught in universities, and you say i don't mention sources. fine. whatever. you're obviously not listening.

"I mention books that are virtually textbooks" when you mention two books right before it. You obviously mean both of these, and that's what Photon called you on.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by calculoso

In your opinion....

on a message board...

hey, my name is looger.

in my opinion.

this is a post.

in my opinion.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Looger

on a message board...

hey, my name is looger.

in my opinion.

this is a post.

in my opinion.

You want to play that game, do you?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by calculoso

"I mention books that are virtually textbooks" when you mention two books right before it. You obviously mean both of these, and that's what Photon called you on.

i ****ed up, i am sorry.

so... Bleeding Red can post stuff like this:

Saying Jew collectively participated and aided the Nazis in the Holocaust is the same as calling Jews Nazis.

when i never ANYWHERE claimed that jews collectively participated.

and he doesn't get called on that - he's clearly laying some groundwork here, by phrase alone. because hitler used the idea of COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT against the jews, he accuses me of it to put me on that side of his sick fantasy struggle against evil.

when in reality, and this is how twisted Bleeding Red's post is, israel uses collective punishment against lebanon and the occupied territories CONSTANTLY.

always you hear statements from the israeli military establishment and government aboot collective punishment - it is very surreal.

history has a sense of irony that is not to be believed... it is shocking how much out of the nazi handbooks that israel derives policy.

yep, you got me on the textbook thing, i ****ed up.

what does Bleeding Red get for putting words in my mouth aboot racial hatred?

he gets me,

OUT OF THIS THREAD.

[photon]

Oi! I'm not trying to hold all posters to a standard (I'd need 10 arms and 96 hours in a day), I only saw the name of a book and author being held up and commented on that.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by photon

Oi! I'm not trying to hold all posters to a standard (I'd need 10 arms and 96 hours in a day), I only saw the name of a book and author being held up and commented on that.

sorry. just found myself a bit at bay, correctly called on little stuff and sick of the fabricated and insane big stuff.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Looger

he gets me,

OUT OF THIS THREAD.

Its funny how you always disappear from certain threads when you've been proven wrong.

At least stay and try and defend your viewpoints, not say "out of this thread" just because you may have made an honest mistake, OR have been proven wrong.

It happens to everyone. Reading your comment, "outta this thread" really makes me wonder how far you would go to defend your viewpoint, crazy and radical as it might seem.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

Its funny how you always disappear from certain threads when you've been proven wrong.

Pot, meet kettle.