Harper to Bring Home Evacuees on Government Plane

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

From what I've read (in the paper,on the window of every shop, and side of a bus in town) it seems to me that we need more immigration, not less.

Agreed, we need more SKILLED immigrants. Not the family re-unification immigrants that are 75 years old and coming to milk the health care system for all its worth.....and let me tell you.....Familiy class immigrants make up the majority of immigration to Canada.

Let me clarify before someone brands me a selfish rightwing nut job, I have no problem with family re-unification as long as they pay for their own cost when they get here. There has to be a certain time period given before they can start milking the system. As it stands now, as soon as they get off the plane....wait....as soon as they get thier landing document signed, they have access to all programs to Canada except welfare....and even at that they can still access it but the government will try and recoup it from the sponser......it rarely happens though that the money is recouped.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Flame On

They also aren't a drain on the tax base when times are good like we all are.

What??

When times are good the government makes a lot of money off of us. My point is they don't pay anything as far as taxes are concerned yet we foot the bill when they need help

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Agreed, we need more SKILLED immigrants. Not the family re-unification immigrants that are 75 years old and coming to milk the health care system for all its worth.....and let me tell you.....Familiy class immigrants make up the majority of immigration to Canada.

Let me clarify before someone brands me a selfish rightwing nut job, I have no problem with family re-unification as long as they pay for their own cost when they get here. There has to be a certain time period given before they can start milking the system. As it stands now, as soon as they get off the plane....wait....as soon as they get thier landing document signed, they have access to all programs to Canada except welfare....and even at that they can still access it but the government will try and recoup it from the sponser......it rarely happens though that the money is recouped.

So what you are trying to tell me is that immigrants to Canada have access to almost all the stuff Canadians have access to when they live in Canada? Who woulda thunk it.

You want to know what's even worse? A hundred years ago my ancestors, reeking of lutefisk and saurkraut, were given free farmland when they got to Alberta. Those freeloaders even brought grandma and grandpa with them to die on our virgin soil! Who knows how well off this province would be if we hadn't squandered all that prime real estate!

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by moon

What about the 5,000 we should take from Afghistan or Darfur or Iraq? PLus the 5,000 we would inevitably leave behind? Or those that aren't being bombd now but live in poverty and will die because of a lack or resources?

It seems liek anice idea but it is so logistically impossible and would do little to help the people in general that need help. I would say that the 300 million could be better spent to help them and selfishly in a way that would not bring in 5,000 potentially dangerous, criminal, money grabbing immigrants to Canada.

Yes I agree, we should be taking some people who are trapped in other wartorn regions, and although a small number like 5,000 may not seem like enough- it's a whole lot better then zero isn't it? I am aware there could be consequences involved such as potential criminals or what-have-you, but they also would be grateful for the opportunity wouldn't they? I'm not talking about bringing in the poverished by the way because they (for the most part) aren't in danger of being blown apart.

However perhaps you are correct, moon, when you say the money could be put to better use then simply 'shippin' em to Canada'. I was just making a suggestion earlier. I personally feel bad for these people. It sounds like nothing short of a disaster.

In terms of Canadians being short with the government and their response times, well, all you can say is that they obviously are doing their best. It probably isnt the easiest task shuttling out the biggest Canadian evacuation in history- and when your own damn leader is flying his ass over there to pick you up, well, I don't see how it can get much better then that. It's not like Canada is the only country trying to get people safely back.

On the other hand, if I had just heard a bomb explode next to me, and then was told 'hey hold on just 2 more days', I'd probably being yelling to get me the **** out of there too.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

So what you are trying to tell me is that immigrants to Canada have access to almost all the stuff Canadians have access to when they live in Canada? Who woulda thunk it.

You want to know what's even worse? A hundred years ago my ancestors, reeking of lutefisk and saurkraut, were given free farmland when they got to Alberta. Those freeloaders even brought grandma and grandpa with them to die on our virgin soil! Who knows how well off this province would be if we hadn't squandered all that prime real estate!

And those comparisons are are soooo alike. When our ancestors came over that was part of the deal. They got some free land and thats it. No healthcare, wealfare, language training, education....nothing.

All I was arguing was that someone said "aren't we looking for immigrants?" I said yes but not the family re-unification class. We have a health care crisis as it is and an aging population.....but wait.....lets get some more old people here to jam up the sytem.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I appreciate the 10 bucks.....I also appreciate that fact that you re-wrote your response in a more friendly manner.

Now, I have no problems bringing in refugees as long as no additional funds are used. If you want to take it out of our annual foreign relief payments...fine....no prob. I would even allow as many people who wanted to come to Canada if they guaranteed us that they would not milk our system ie:welfare, healthcare, subsidies ect.

I have to disagree with you one the salary issue. I personally have no problems paying taxes, I like helping people that need it, but the history of our government has shown that A LOT and I mean A LOT of our tax dollars are squandered on useless programs and given to people who dont need it. When you start making big bucks, I am sure when ever you look at your paystub and see the amount they take off and then all you here about is government waste, you will be ****ed of aswell. The latest "program" that a back bencher Lib wants to start is a subsidy program for people who travel to other parts of Canada. His idea is that you will get up to $2000 back in taxes if you travel at least 3 provinces from your own home and you take either a plane, bus, or train. This is what ****es me off. Also we give back ALL the GST paid by tourrists when they leave the country. WHY?? Getting their GST back will not make or break thier decision to come to Canada......not to mention that fact that it is the most abused program out there by Canadians getting GST back by claiming they are tourrists. AHHHH.

Also, I want foreigners to come to Canada, we need them...but....they need to be productive. Yes Canada has a commitment of brining in refugees. But the system is a complete pile of crap. The people that are actually rrefugees don't get in and the ones that aren't refugees do. It costs the Canadian tax payer over $45,000 per refugee claiment. Canada accepted almost 26,000 refugees in 2003 and another 5,000 Humanitarian and Compasionate cases.

Does life suck for some people??? Yes it does and as members of the global community we have a responsibility to help.....having said that....there is a point in when enough is enough. You and I simple disagree on how much that is.

Hey check it out, Jolinar does have a heart. Your status has elevated from greedy monopoly guy to cool dude.



Disagreeing on how much help is required- or the relevant way to help that is necessary- isnt too much of a disagreement anyway. I originally believed you to think we should sit on our asses and they can help themselves if you will. I didn't think you cared about Canada's international relationship with countries but its obvious you do. Which is good because it truly is very important.

I realise taxes suck. I bet I will become more bitter when I am earning more as well. But I also realise that we live in the greatest nation on the planet (how American does THAT sound... yikes) and that from the many Canadians I know, they take this city and country for granted. It's nothing to be proud of. If our tax system helps create this environment, I can deal with that too. But I still don't see how dropping the Chinese solution for a few Lebanese that can escape the war is a big deal when immigrants are already planned for Fort Macmurray.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Hey check it out, Jolinar does have a heart. Your status has elevated from greedy monopoly guy to cool dude.



Disagreeing on how much help is required- or the relevant way to help that is necessary- isnt too much of a disagreement anyway. I originally believed you to think we should sit on our asses and they can help themselves if you will. I didn't think you cared about Canada's international relationship with countries but its obvious you do. Which is good because it truly is very important.

I realise taxes suck. I bet I will become more bitter when I am earning more as well. But I also realise that we live in the greatest nation on the planet (how American does THAT sound... yikes) and that from the many Canadians I know, they take this city and country for granted. It's nothing to be proud of. If our tax system helps create this environment, I can deal with that too. But I still don't see how dropping the Chinese solution for a few Lebanese that can escape the war is a big deal when immigrants are already planned for Fort Macmurray.

Haha thanks.

Like I said, I would accept 50,000 skilled workers here no prob but that is the difference. Citizenship and Immigration is not going over to China and haveing a lottery to see who comes over. They have to be skilled and have the education and training to work in that sector. I have some limited experience within the oil sector working both on a service rig and a drilling rig but I definantely don't have the experience to work in one of the plants in fort mac.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

I highly doubt if it was a bunch of british foreigners being sent here you'd be worried about them leaching off the welfare.........

That is probably correct, but Lebanese, Mexicans, Germans (from Berlin) are all grouped the same.

The simple fact of the matter is Canada is barely responsible for getting these people to Cyprus - thats it. No paying for their airfare home, no hotels. The US wont even evacuate you unless you pay $300 or sign a IOU form (cant remember exact name). After that they will arrange transportation but you have to pay for it.

Yes we SHOULD be taking refugees, we should help Africa, we should help people with AIDS, we should.... Simple fact is no country has enough money to do that. If we take refugees from Lebanon the Harper govt would be accused of racism for not taking an equal amount from Africa and wherever else is a ****-hole place to live.

Sometimes people have to take responsibility for thier own situation and not vacation in an area of a country which is so unstable. Hezbola has fired over 200 rockets into Isreal since Syria left, this isnt a one off deal, Lebanon has been at war with Isreal for a while. Its likely only the US who has told Isreal to let it be because of the Iran thing. Now Isreal has a case it can take internationally about the kidnap of its soldiers (the world community doesnt care about rockets being constantly fired into Isreal of course).

This whole mess is the same as the jacktard who friend who keeps giving you kidney shots and then laughs about it, you can either laugh to and take it or eventually give him an elbow to the face and ask him how he likes it (yes its happened and amazingly the kidney shots stopped).

MYK

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flame On

You read the whole thread and that was the one that caught your eye as being dick worthy?

No, but it was the only one where someone made a hypocrite out of themselves by telling someone else to stop being a dick, then going out and being one themselves.

[flames_1987]

I'm so sick of hearing the evacues bitching on the news about how there was no AC on board and they had to sleep on the floor, it wasen't planned out at all bla bla bla. Your being rescued..not taken for a freaking cruise. The one guy said it best "I'm just glad me and my 2 daughters are still alive". This was an emergancy rescue, for the love of god stop your bitching

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

I'm so sick of hearing the evacues bitching on the news about how there was no AC on board and they had to sleep on the floor, it wasen't planned out at all bla bla bla. Your being rescued..not taken for a freaking cruise. The one guy said it best "I'm just glad me and my 2 daughters are still alive". This was an emergancy rescue, for the love of god stop your bitching

No kidding.

Seems like the people are not thankful for what Canada the US and other countries have done by getting them out safetly.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Azure

No kidding.

Seems like the people are not thankful for what Canada the US and other countries have done by getting them out safetly.

I agree, but I also have a hunch that the news agencies here in Canada are trying to play it up so the Harper government looks bad.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I agree, but I also have a hunch that the news agencies here in Canada are trying to play it up so the Harper government looks bad.

How can anyone blame Harper for any of this. Paranoid much?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

How can anyone blame Harper for any of this. Paranoid much?

Hello???

Take a look at any of the major news agencies and most of the head lines are "government takes flak for slow evacuation" "Harper brings plane to evacuate angry Canadians" "Canadian says government did nothing to help his family escape"

I said the Harper government NOT Harper. Some people on this site really need to read and not between the lines.

[Shazam]

Just so you know, one only has to make $75,000 to pay $30,000 in income tax.

Sorry, but WTF? A person in Alberta that makes $75000 pays far less than $30K in taxes. I suggest you download the Tables on Diskette (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/business/tod/menu-e.html) and actually figure out how much people earn net.

Also the top 30% of Canadians pay 65.9% of all the taxes in Canada while the bottom 30% pay only 4.7%. SO, instead of splitting the tax burden evenly of $10 times 30,000,000 it will most likely be a couple thousand dollars from the people who are already footing the bill for everthing else.

So what? Hey, rich people don't give a **** about pleebs. I know a few millionaires, and do you know what they do with their money? They buy really expensive ****, and go on really expensive vacations.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Sorry, but WTF? A person in Alberta that makes $75000 pays far less than $30K in taxes. I suggest you download the Tables on Diskette (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/business/tod/menu-e.html) and actually figure out how much people earn net.

So what? Hey, rich people don't give a **** about pleebs. I know a few millionaires, and do you know what they do with their money? They buy really expensive ****, and go on really expensive vacations.

You think people only pay income tax??????????????????????????????

What about CPP, EI, Health care premiums?????????????????

And they pay for all your healthcare, education, and everything else you take for granted.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Hello???

Take a look at any of the major news agencies and most of the head lines are "government takes flak for slow evacuation" "Harper brings plane to evacuate angry Canadians" "Canadian says government did nothing to help his family escape"

I said the Harper government NOT Harper. Some people on this site really need to read and not between the lines.

I guess I forgot how the great unwashed views things. With half of Lebanon claiming Canadian citizenship, it's going to take a while. I can understand their panic but Lebanon is a long ways off and we have limited resources.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I guess I forgot how the great unwashed views things. With half of Lebanon claiming Canadian citizenship, it's going to take a while. I can understand their panic but Lebanon is a long ways off and we have limited resources.

Exactly, and if you actually check out some of the smaller news sites on the web there are a lot of people thanking the government for all the help. My point is the Canadian media is focusing only on the negative comments coming from probably a very few people.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Exactly, and if you actually check out some of the smaller news sites on the web there are a lot of people thanking the government for all the help. My point is the Canadian media is focusing only on the negative comments coming from probably a very few people.

Which in my eyes, only makes them look ungrateful,doesn't reflect on Harper.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Which in my eyes, only makes them look ungrateful,doesn't reflect on Harper.

I agree, the point I am making is that instead of the media focusing in on the positive outcome, the are focusing in on the negative, which really isnt their.