Budget Coming down today

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm not a communist...I'm a capitalist liberal, figure that one out.

Try this ... apparently I'm a socialist libertarian.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Why aren't they putting it all to the lower income guy? That's a good question.

One arguement that is made is that the higher income ranges do pay a lot more taxes. It costs X number of dollars to run the gov't, everything from military to garbage collection. One might argue that it isn't fair that some people pay 10's of thousands of dollars for those services; while others only pay a few hundred. It isn't like the people in Mount Royal get better garbage service than those in Forest Lawn.

It's hard to find other parallels because for example with Flames tickets; the people who pay more get a better view of the game. With groceries; while the family in MR buys steak, the family in FL buys ground beef.

I'm not saying that everybody should pay the exact same amount; but I do understand how the "rich" might be entitled to benefits.

That's why I like the idea of these student tax breaks. If you have a low income because you are going to school; yes you should get breaks. If you have a low income because for some reason under your own control (drop out of high school, etc) then I don't think you should be coddled for the rest of your life at the expense of other tax payers.

[Cowperson]

The top 10% of Canadians pay 52% of total federal personal income taxes if I'm not mistaken.

I think also that the top 20% pay about 80%.

Cowperson

[FireFly]

Sorry guys, it was a rhetorical question. I know those at the bottom have it fairly good... I've been there for the last 6 years. Sure it sucks to have it come off your paycheque, but you learn to live without. Then when you get your return, you go out and buy that 'thing' you really wanted.

I think the idea behind a GST cut is just that. People don't really notice it when the money comes right off their paycheque. When it goes further, that's when they notice it.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Sorry guys, it was a rhetorical question. I know those at the bottom have it fairly good... I've been there for the last 6 years. Sure it sucks to have it come off your paycheque, but you learn to live without. Then when you get your return, you go out and buy that 'thing' you really wanted.

I think the idea behind a GST cut is just that. People don't really notice it when the money comes right off their paycheque. When it goes further, that's when they notice it.

Funny, I had you pegged more on the left side of things.

That being said I notive it right away when it comes off my paycheque. First thing I usually say when I get my cheque is "****ing government."

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

The top 10% of Canadians pay 52% of total federal personal income taxes if I'm not mistaken.

I think also that the top 20% pay about 80%.

Cowperson

Which is as it should be in a progressive tax system.

I'm a liberal, but this is one case where I agree with the CPC. I support reducing and eliminating the GST for reasons that have been explained above much better than I can. Essentially, sales taxes negatively affect the poor and middle class, because they are forced to spend a much higher proportion of their income on consumer goods, many of which are taxable under the GST. If you make more money, you probably spend more and pay more tax. However, the amount you spend matters less to you because in real dollars you have more money left. It's pretty simple, really.

[Antithesis]

I never understood, with the GST, how toilet paper is taxed (therefore not considered a "need") while chocolate milk is not.

[ken0042]

IIRC chocolate milk was taxed at first; but then the arguement came up about how it is just a different type of milk, and how groceries are not taxed..... and I think there was a push to take it out of the same league as pop because chocolate milk is way better for you than pop.

I also don't think the concept of "need" doesn't apply; as any source of heating requires you to pay GST. (I think)

However TP is one of the many things that is taxed that I don't think should be.

[Antithesis]

That's cool. Admittedly, I was young when the GST was introduced so I'm not up to speed on all of the politics of it. Makes sense when compared to pop and such.

Does anyone know why one donut is taxed and a half dozen are not?

[Fire]

If it was up to me I would reduce the GST to 4% and apply it to everything. Thus removing the cost of all the overhead needed to make sure the GST is or isn't applied to the appropriate items.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Fire

If it was up to me I would reduce the GST to 4% and apply it to everything. Thus removing the cost of all the overhead needed to make sure the GST is or isn't applied to the appropriate items.

I don't agree with that at all. The GST is not charged on 'real food'. The poor cannot afford to pay 4% more for food they need. When you can't afford food, you end up buying junk food or that which is less nutritious as it is cheaper. Then these people are not only poor but unhealthy.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I don't agree with that at all. The GST is not charged on 'real food'. The poor cannot afford to pay 4% more for food they need. When you can't afford food, you end up buying junk food or that which is less nutritious as it is cheaper. Then these people are not only poor but unhealthy.

Also consider that poor nutrition in children also stunts cognitive development, which in turn limits their potential to educate themselves and break class, thus completing the cycle of poverty.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by FireFly

The GST is not charged on 'real food'. The poor cannot afford to pay 4% more for food they need. When you can't afford food, you end up buying junk food or that which is less nutritious as it is cheaper. Then these people are not only poor but unhealthy.

Very true.

And then like Antithesis pointed out, a dozen donuts are not taxed either, but they don't magically become 'real food'. I wonder what genius came up with that one.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Very true.

And then like Antithesis pointed out, a dozen donuts are not taxed either, but they don't magically become 'real food'. I wonder what genius came up with that one.

I suspect that what idiotic policies like this one reveal is not that any particular bureaucrat is incompetent. Rather, what it shows us is that there's no logical way to tax consumption without disproportionately affecting those who can afford it the least. I'm sure the CPC and I will disagree on every other issue--but phasing out the GST is a good idea.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I don't agree with that at all. The GST is not charged on 'real food'. The poor cannot afford to pay 4% more for food they need. When you can't afford food, you end up buying junk food or that which is less nutritious as it is cheaper. Then these people are not only poor but unhealthy.

4% is not enough to change a person's buying habits. Plus the poor will save money with the lower GST on items that originally had GST applied.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Fire

4% is not enough to change a person's buying habits. Plus the poor will save money with the lower GST on items that originally had GST applied.

You mean like cigarettes and videogames? That's helpful...

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

And then like Antithesis pointed out, a dozen donuts are not taxed either, but they don't magically become 'real food'. I wonder what genius came up with that one.

This all came about for things like muffins. Buying one; you are going out and buying a snack. Buy a dozen, and you are buying groceries; very few famillies of 4 will sit down and chow down on a dozen donuts while out shopping. To keep things simple, they made the rule apply to baked goods, and not just something good for you like a muffin.

Because between Bran muffins, chocolate muffins, chocolate cupcakes, baked donuts, fried donuts; where do you draw that line? I'm glad the gov't didn't try and figure out what people should or shouldn't be eating.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Because between Bran muffins, chocolate muffins, chocolate cupcakes, baked donuts, fried donuts; where do you draw that line? I'm glad the gov't didn't try and figure out what people should or shouldn't be eating.

Agreed. But I still think the simplest solution would be to not tax any of it.