United 93, opening old wounds and exposing some truth?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

If anyone's interested, I'm working on a review of United 93 for the local paper--it'll probably come out Tuesday. If there's any interest, I'll post a link. It doesn't deal with any of this conspiracy business, which I have to admit to not putting much stock in (not trying to start a fight or anything...), but does talk about what contribution this film makes to our understanding of that day. Not my best work, but might merit some discussion...

[snappyk]

Originally Posted by ken0042

It isn't. At least if its spelled correctly.

Cockpit
**** pit

Who puts a space between that anyways?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Hesla

I bet those dastardley Illuminati are involved... with all their scheming and what not....

It's the Elder's of Zion man!

working in cahoots with the Masonic Priests of Skull & Bones!

[Moderator]

I realize this is coming a little late but cut the name calling and personal attacks out. If you guys can't debate this like adults then threads like this will be shut down PDQ in the future.

[CaptainCrunch]

I love a good conspiracy theory, the theory that the moon landing was filled at area 51, the CIA killed Kennedy, they're all great, but conspiracy theories only work if you string together the minor facts, and then twist them to fit a theory.

The damage created at the pentagon really dosen't match any kind of ordance attached to a fighter, a maverick warhead is too small, a gravity bomb is too precise, a cruise missile would have been noticed from the highway, unless your going to tell me that the witnesses were paid off.

We know that fighters were launched from various bases in the area, hell norad scrambled F18's in Canada to help cover the northern U.S., but those planes also landed with a full load of ordinance and were outfitted with air to air missiles whose warheads wouldn't do anywhere near the amount of damage caused at the pentagon.

Witnesses saw the plane heading in, bodies were identified by finger prints and DNA because fire is an inefficient thing and dosen't destroy everything very often.

No airtraffic controllers indicated that there were fighters or bombers in the area of the pentagon until after the incident, and civillian radar would have picked up a missile launch or a bomb release as a un marked object.

It would have taken a genius with high speed technology to plant that wreckage in a way that fooled the FAA and other investigatory agencies, and I've seen as many articles and books that describe the wreckage as 757 wreckage as books that describe it as not 757 wreckage.

I don't buy the motive, from an american standpoint it would have been preferable to avoid attacking a military structure and limit the casualties to civilian targets, then it would have been easier to argue that terrorists only go after the innocent, and in the aftermath the Pentagon attack got nowhere near the same kind of coverage as the World Trade Center.

I'm sorry Lanny, but respectfully the passengers on flight 93 knew that they were pretty much dead no matter what, and decided to do something anyways instead of sitting quietly in thier seats and accepting thier death. They said good bye to thier friends and families and took thier fates into thier own hands.

I do think its too soon for this movie as there seems to be holes in the theory not that the events did or didn't happen, but the sequence of events on board the planes will never be known.

I also find it disgusting when conspiracy theorist and people that have a hate on for the U.S. government use thier lives and deaths as an asinine debating point to say that everything that America does is evil.

Its more likely looking at the chain of events that a plane hit the pentagon and not a missile, or a planted bomb with planted evidence.

Paging O.J. Simpson we need to refilm the mars landing scene.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

If anyone's interested, I'm working on a review of United 93 for the local paper--it'll probably come out Tuesday. If there's any interest, I'll post a link. It doesn't deal with any of this conspiracy business, which I have to admit to not putting much stock in (not trying to start a fight or anything...), but does talk about what contribution this film makes to our understanding of that day. Not my best work, but might merit some discussion...

Post the link, I'd be interested in reading it

Thanks

CC

[if.away]

And just for everyone's information, and as a little request. There is a video on the net of a military test where a full sized jetplane is crashed at full speed into a gigantic block of concrete. In slow motion you can see the plane disintegrating into absolutely nothing but dust and minuscule debris meter by meter. At the end of the test there is absolutely nothing left of the airplane while the concrete is pretty much intact. If anyone has a link to that please post it because I've been searching for it and can't find it.

In any case it should answer questions like: "where did the plane disappear?".

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Paging O.J. Simpson we need to refilm the mars landing scene.

Maybe when Lanny was golfing with OJ yesterday, looking for Nicole's killer, he was doing double duty looking for the 25,000 bodies he insisted (for six weeks) the government was hiding in the aftermath of 9/11.

"Conspiracy theories are one way to make sense of what happened and regain a sense of control," said Michael Barkun, a political scientist at Syracuse University who has written books on the culture of conspiracies. "Of course, they're usually wrong, but they're psychologically reassuring. Because what they say is that everything is connected, nothing happens by accident, and that there is some kind of order in the world, even if it's produced by evil forces. I think psychologically, it's in a way consoling to a lot of people."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Oct6.html

I also find it disgusting when conspiracy theorist and people that have a hate on for the U.S. government use thier lives and deaths as an asinine debating point to say that everything that America does is evil. - Captain Crunch.

From the same article above:

"It seems that since the end of the Cold War, the enemy is the United States government, the enemy is within," said Rick Ross, whose Ross Institute of New Jersey monitors cults and other controversial groups, many of which see manipulative forces working behind the scenes. "Instead of projecting conspiracy theories out, it's become internalized."

Also, this observation:

"The hardcore conspiracy theorists are totally committed," 9/11 Commission's executive director Phillip D. Zelikow said. "They'd have to repudiate much of their life identity in order not to accept some of that stuff."

"The question of whether American 77 hit the Pentagon is indisputable," Zelikow said. "One reason you tend to doubt conspiracy theories when you've worked in government is because you know government is not nearly competent enough to carry off elaborate theories. It's a banal explanation, but imagine how efficient it would need to be."

The more layers a conspiracy theory requires, the less likely it becomes. Most 9/11 conspiracy theories would require thousands of people not connected with government being involved.

Popular Mechanics looks at the various conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11, including issues surrounding Flight 93 (page 7 and 8):

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

Cowperson

[troutman]

And if anyone doubts NASA put men on the moon:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Post the link, I'd be interested in reading it

Thanks

CC

Aye Aye, Captain!

Here's the link to the opinion piece I did for the Iowa City Press-Citizen. For some reason, they chose to note that I'm a "Canadian National" in my by-line.... should I be alarmed?

http://www.press-citizen.com/apps/pb...0/1018/OPINION

[greasesuck]

I think the movie was funny because it makes Muslims looks like terrrorists, the U.S. loves scapegoating. Just how they like to expose Canada's weaknesses. I am a Muslim but not a religious one. If you wan't to see a movie based on lies go ahead. I think it might be nominated for comedy of the year.

[CaptainCrunch]

How in the hell were they not terrorists, they flew planes loaded with Civilians into buildings targeting other civilians. They're terrorists and murderers.

Based on lies, thats funny, this movie is not an expose on U.S. foreign policy, its based on one thing and thats the events on that plane at that time.

While U.S. foreign policy is suspect or even rather crappy, a terrorist is a terrorist no matter what side thier on.

[greasesuck]

Listen you dickweed, they are labelling every Muslim as a terrorist not just a certain few brainwashed radicals. Do some research on the internet, cells don't opperate and 30,000 feet in the air.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by greasesuck

I think the movie was funny because it makes Muslims looks like terrrorists, the U.S. loves scapegoating. Just how they like to expose Canada's weaknesses. I am a Muslim but not a religious one. If you wan't to see a movie based on lies go ahead. I think it might be nominated for comedy of the year.

OK, look:
a) Not all terrorists are muslims. (not even most, actually)
b) Most muslims aren't terrorists--Islam, like Christianity is a religion that preaches love.
c) However, THESE terrorists were muslims. Did you expect the movie to portray them as something else?

I'm as politically correct as they come--but come on.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by greasesuck

Listen you dickweed, they are labelling every Muslim as a terrorist not just a certain few brainwashed radicals.

Watch the name calling. Make your points but leave that junk out of it OK?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by greasesuck

Listen you dickweed, they are labelling every Muslim as a terrorist not just a certain few brainwashed radicals.

Actually, that's not at all what the movie does. If you read my review, you'll see that I didn't love the movie. However, in no way does it suggest that all muslims are radical Islamist terrorists. I challenge you to find a scene in the movie that suggests this.

That's not to say that this perception doesn't exist in some places--just not in this particular film. I'm beginning to wonder if you even saw it.

Also, let's keep the name-callling to a minimum. It'll just result in the thread being locked, people being banned, etc. No-one wants that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by greasesuck

Listen you dickweed, they are labelling every Muslim as a terrorist not just a certain few brainwashed radicals. Do some research on the internet, cells don't opperate and 30,000 feet in the air.

Did you actually read my response before you totally threw the personal insults in?

Where did I say that they were labeling every Muslim as a terrorist, where in the movie did they label every muslim as a terrorist. I quote

Based on lies, thats funny, this movie is not an expose on U.S. foreign policy, its based on one thing and thats the events on that plane at that time.

Even in my first paragraph I stated that the Muslims on the plane were terrorists, they weren't brave freedom fighters, or heroic martyrs, they murdered civilians that had nothing to do with the events in the middle east.

Cut out the crap and the personal insults, it just makes you look ignorant. If you want to be civilized I'm more then willing to debate anyone, but if your going to be an ass, just don't bother.


On the cell thing, they do have recorded conversations between passengers and thier families, or was that a fabrication as well. BTW cell phones can work at 30,000 feet, however thier signal gets received by multiple cell towers and the signal can be received by 100's of towers at a time clogging networks.


BTW Iowa, great job on the review, I agree with you for the most part.

[White Doors]

Oh goody! another conspiracy!
yay!
the phone companies are in on it now!

Not all muslims are terrorists no, but the vast majority of terrorists are muslims.

Wonder why that is?

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Not all muslims are terrorists no, but the vast majority of terrorists are muslims. Wonder why that is?

Probably for the same reason why most White Supremacists are Christian.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Probably for the same reason why most White Supremacists are Christian.

Niiiiiccccccceeee!!!!