David Emerson crosses floor to the Tories

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by FireFly

My response to that is that one extra seat allows them to form a coalition with any of the other parties instead of restricting them to two. In the case of the Liberals allowing Belinda in, they did not need her support, nor did they need to give her a Cabinet seat for support in an area where they were lacking.

Uh, maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but as I recall it, the Liberals + NDP + their independent supporters (Cadman and Parrish) were just shy of a majority. The Stronach defection gave the Liberal + NDP just enough seats to form a majority. Now, you're saying that the Liberals didn't need her support? As I see it, they needed her support far, far more than the Conservatives need Emerson.

[EddyBeers]

Who are the idiots that say that the Liberals did not need Belinda's vote in May?? The confidence motion was 152-152, without Belinda's vote it would have been 153-151, meaning there would have been an election last spring, i am pretty sure that the Liberals needed Belinda at that time

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Hey Furnace, perhaps you missed my previous post...

Yep, I read the post but for some reason didn't read your name. I stand corrected.

The point is still valid though as a major part of the CPC platform was government accountability and to "stand up for Canada" [in the face of corruption] it seems how shall I say it... "a bit off" that he'd accept this guy. More "off" is tapping the shoulder of a guy who got you elected thanks to a good campaign and then giving him a position with billions of dollars to play with even though he's not an MP. It just seems a little hypocritical.

Both Emerson and Fortier are likely excellent choices and will likely do great jobs in their posts, they just seem odd choices for the campaign that was run.

Originally Posted by FireFly

It's prudent in this case because they needed this to gain a majority when voting with the NDP. They can now align with any other party and have a majority. With Belinda, it wasn't necessary for the Liberals to have one more seat to get that support.

EDIT: I see others have answered this comment already.

As an aside, doesn't it strike anyone else as odd the CPC will likely be trying to woo support from the NDP? They should be at opposite ends of the Canadian ideological spectrum and not on the same side.

What fun times we live in.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Who are the idiots that say that the Liberals did not need Belinda's vote in May?? The confidence motion was 152-152, without Belinda's vote it would have been 153-151, meaning there would have been an election last spring, i am pretty sure that the Liberals needed Belinda at that time

I'm afraid I thought it was even and that the speaker was the deciding vote. My apologies if I was incorrect.

Oh, and thanks for the personal attack.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

As an aside, doesn't it strike anyone else as odd the CPC will likely be trying to woo support from the NDP? They should be at opposite ends of the Canadian ideological spectrum and not on the same side.

What fun times we live in.

Not really because they probably won't do it for fiscal issues where they will likely have the support of either the Bloc or the Liberals.

[MarchHare]

I'm afraid I thought it was even and that the speaker was the deciding vote. My apologies if I was incorrect.

It was even with the speaker deciding the vote, but it only was tied because of Stronach's defection. If she had stayed with the Conservatives and voted along with them, the government would have been defeated.

[FireFly]

Got that, thanks.

Anyhew, it's still much different, IMO, as the Conservatives landed an experienced Cabinet Minister, who may be 2-faced or whatever you want to call him, probably had reasons other than power for crossing the floor. He's the trade Minister now, with other duties due to the coming Olympics. There are important trade issues which affect BC that he can assist with, and it was important for the Conservatives to get 'support' in Vancouver. Belinda on the other hand was a rookie MP in an area that didn't really need additional support for Liberals as she's in Ontario. Sure the Liberals needed a hand, but to get it from a rookie and give her the Minister of Human Resources position right off the bat? At least Emerson has credentials behind him other than a losing attempt at a leadership position.

[Vulcan]

Everyone should remember that Winston Churchill [Nobel winner and voted 'Greatest Briton'] crossed the floor to sit with the Liberals in 1904 and returned to the Conservatives in 1924. As far as Emerson goes, we'll get over it.

The unholy wedding of Harper and Layton brings up uncomfortable images. How did Harper vote on same sex marriage again?

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

When the Tories are caught defrauding taxpayers of their money for the party's personal gain, or the party right up to the Prime Minister comes under investigation into dozens of scandals, then you will have a point.

You can use this incident to further a partisan attack of your own, but one black mark does not put Harper and the Conservatives anywhere close to the wanton criminal acts of the Liberals.

This is what I've been waiting for. I guess Liberal critisizers were just being "partisan" before. Oh and I guess the Cons can do everything they want just shy of what the Libs did.
Except that the Cons held themselves to a higher standard and got voted in on the basis of such.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Perhaps your anger over this matter has caused you to fail to realize I have neither applauded or condoned this action as of yet. I'm not grasping straws, I'm offering possible explainations.

I'm hardly angry. I actually laughed when I heard the news because I knew the backpedalling would be furious and it has been. I don't care about the Liberal party so the whole "traitor" angle doesn't bother me at all and I'm certainly not angry that the staunch Conservatives just moved closer to the center. I'm a leftie after all so I can't complain too loud when one of 'em gets into Cabinet, even if he has to wear a blue tie to get in the room.

[JohnnyTitan]

I'm hardly angry either. Get over it.

a) How did Belinda's constituents "Rebel" when given a chance less than a year later? (Hint: Big win)
b) What about Scott Brison? (Hint: Big win)
c) The prostitution seems much less to me. The conservative ministry is, on average, smarter and more skilled with Emerson. You could never make this arguement with the Belinda crossing.
d) Happy Harper is "Cooperating" with big Urban cities
e) Happy Harper is attracting talent from "Fringe" conservatives
f) Happy Harper is moving more towards the social centre of the spectrum
g) With both these appointments, you can honestly argue that they are the BEST people for the jobs. (Not just patronage appointments)
h) (see a, b) The Vancouver constituents will get a chance to make Emerson pay in a couple years.

I'm a conservative supporter, but as a former PC do not like many old Reformers and was weary of a neo-conservative social agenda. In my opinion, Harper today made some excellent decisions. Not just with these two, but with other cabinet appointments.

Would you rather the Stephen Harper of a year ago who scared his MPs away????

[Bobblehead]

The Vancouver-Kingsway Liberal riding association want their $97,000 back.

[Cowperson]

Like I said earlier, they should sue him for fraud.

The Belinda Stronach defection, nor any other defection before it that I can see, compares to anything like this one.

Defections are part of political gamesmanship. This is fraud.

Cowperson

[simmer2]

I guess I look at this entire thing completely differently. The Government of Canada is, in essence, a gigantic inefficient business, with taxpayers as the constant stream of cash. Now, the government has recently been bought out by the Conservatives, with Stephen Harper as the majority owner. With him taking over the new government, he needs to completely re-hire every major position in his company, not an easy task.

So he's sitting down, trying to find people with lots of relevant experience,
and he comes across a resume from a certain Emerson. Emerson happens to be from the previous owners, but had a very good track record at his job. He personally is a very successful businessman and would be an ideal candidate for Minister of Industry, yet he worked for the previous owners. Looking at the government from a business standpoint, you hire a guy who has the best experience, has a proven track record with the relevant position, and is a capable politician. Therefore, Emerson = hired.

Now, I'm sure a lot of people will say, government can't be considered a business, there's way too many underlying issues. I disagree. The government should be handled like a business. There is no way that in a year where we have profits that we should be forced to spend every single penny. What about the noble concept of paying off debt rather than spend it on social programs which you will have to cut 5 years from now when you aren't as profitable?

And personally, with the Conservatives being new to the government (relatively speaking of course- approx. 13 years), I would feel more comfortable with capable MP's than whether they were Liberal or Conservative.

[Julio]

The one thing that had always impressed me about the Reform/Alliance, from the time they had their 1988 'national convention' in the U of C, complete with everybody staying @ dorms, is that they had principles and that while I didn't agree with much of what they had to say, I respected them for their forthrightness and honesty in not compromising.
Over the past few years, as Reform has changed into the Alliance and then the greatest part of the Conservatives, that respect has turned to scorn as former Reformers have proven to be just as power hungry as any other political orgainzation.
Am I suprised about this latest turn of events? No...but I am still just a little bit disappointed that they once again are interested in doing whatever they can to keep ahold of power...regardless of how.
One other thought...how long until some of the 'true believers' of Reform start to get restless because the likes of Myron Thompson have no posts in cabinet, because the health and finance ministers are from Ontario, and because an unelected senator and a turncoat Liberal jumped ahead of lots of MPs who put years and years in the trenches for Reform?

[RougeUnderoos]

he ran his constituency office on a non-partisan basis

Does he actually expect us to believe this? How the hell do you run as a Liberal and claim you are non-partisan? You can't, that's how. What a liar this guy is.

This idiot's "political opportunism" is going to turn into an opportunity to get absolutely buried if he tries to run in another election in that riding. They'll have to find a cushy one for him. Maybe they'll buy him a house in Varsity.

[Cube Inmate]

The whole thing stinks from both perspectives....

No question that the Liberal riding association got bent over worse than anything I've ever seen before. I hope they successfully sue him for the campaign costs...maybe there was some fine print in his nomination papers that he overlooked?

Also no question that this is precisely the kind of thing that should have been avoided by a new, "accountable" government. It's still not as bad as having stolen my money, but it's a sign that we're a long way from real change.

On the other hand...
This isn't nearly as bad as Belinduh's opportunism: she had a gun to the Libs' heads, and used it to get a higher-paying job with more power. The only thing she had to offer the Libs was a single vote to keep them from being euthanized. Emerson had *slightly* more to offer the Cons, and he didn't have a gun to their heads.

[Cowperson]

Emerson rejects calls for his resignation and rejects demands he pay back the money:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

There is an on-line petition demanding his resignation.

http://www.petitiononline.com/RDE/petition.html

Cowperson

[MrMastodonFarm]

What a joker.. it's embaressing enough about how he did this.. but the way he's handled it.. and the assumptions he's made (not thinking people in his riding would care) is a joke.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

What a joker.. it's embaressing enough about how he did this.. but the way he's handled it.. and the assumptions he's made (not thinking people in his riding would care) is a joke.

Exactly. I believe that this riding has never voted in a Conservative candidate. Infact, less than 20% of the votes cast were for the conservatives. Yikes. This move goes to show the inexperience of both Emerson and Harper. Terrible, terrible cabinet appointments all around.

If I was still living in Calgary I would be appalled at the lack of loyalty shown to some of the party's roots. Diane Ablonczy? Jason Kenney? They were there in the thick and thin for the party and get nothing. While some Liberal turncoat gets a plumb appointment. Are Harper's true colours showing through already?