Team Canada Roster Grades

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Morrisey would have helped with the offense. Schaefer hopefully next time. Bouchard would have helped the offense but definitely understand why they didn't bring him. The US definitely has the best offensive dmen.

Injuries were a factor. Morrissey or Crosby could have been difference makers. Crosby, especially, obviously not at his peak anymore, but he's a gamer. The big guys for Canada seemed rattled and were missing plays, not just the MacKinnon shot but other plays, like basic passes, too. Crosby would have provided more stability.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

They did have Hitchcock, who did the same work with Mike Modano. He didn't have any luck with McDavid.

Yeah, Modano and Yzerman listened to their coaches and they both won the Cup. McPiggy ignores his coaches and that's why he hasn't won.

[bubbsy]

I was super disappointed with MacKinnon all tournament. I realize he had health issues but he wasn’t the force I thought he’d be. I felt Canada only had 2 real play/offensive driving forwards, MacKinnon and mcdavid, for much of the knockout stage. I think they need to bring a bit more offensive pop going forward (bedard) over so many guys like Wilson, Bennett/ciccirelli, Marchand, etc.

I realize that they want elite 2-way players, but Canada can usually ice such an elite d group, biasing the forwards with elite game breakers is worthwhile.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

They did have Hitchcock, who did the same work with Mike Modano. He didn't have any luck with McDavid.

The roster for that Oilers team is absolutely brutal though.

Look at the top 6
McDavid
Draisaitl
Nugent Hopkins
Alex Chaisson
Lucic
Kassian


That is a great first line and a bad third/fourth line. The team was unable to draft outside of the first overall pick and as a result they had/have absolutely no depth or quality young players. And when they had a good pick in Eberle they managed to run him out of town for a disappointing playoff for Strome who they then ran out of town for Ryan Spooner who turned into old expensive Sam Gagner. They turned a house into a red paperclip in record time.

[Mathgod]

Edit: post changed, as I misread Cecil's post...

Scheifele is a very talented forward and playing the best hockey of his career this season. Same with Bedard, Raddysh, Chychrun, Schaefer, Geekie. Having these guys on Team Canada instead of 4-Nations holdovers would have made a positive difference I think, and not just because they're different players. They're more effective players.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Edit: post changed, as I misread Cecil's post...

Scheifele is a very talented forward and playing the best hockey of his career this season. Same with Bedard, Raddysh, Chychrun, Schaefer, Geekie. Having these guys on Team Canada instead of 4-Nations holdovers would have made a positive difference I think, and not just because they're different players. They're more effective players.

Are you suggesting that Canada should have taken Morgan Geekie, Jakob Chychrun, and Darren Raddysh and that they would have been more effective players? I get that they have had good offensive seasons so far but I think that Canada needs well rounded players who can be a 200 foot game and be effective on the PK, while still providing offensive potential.

I honestly think that the team put together was a really good team and they played really well once they started to gell. Ultimately they didn't have luck on their side near the end but credit to the other teams as well as Canada doesn't have a monopoly on quality hockey players.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Are you suggesting that Canada should have taken Morgan Geekie, Jakob Chychrun, and Darren Raddysh and that they would have been more effective players? I get that they have had good offensive seasons so far but I think that Canada needs well rounded players who can be a 200 foot game and be effective on the PK, while still providing offensive potential.

I honestly think that the team put together was a really good team and they played really well once they started to gell. Ultimately they didn't have luck on their side near the end but credit to the other teams as well as Canada doesn't have a monopoly on quality hockey players.

Yeah, does anyone think Chychrun, Raddysh and Geekie are doing anything other than having a freak year offensively?

Bedard I think came off his injury too late - they were pretty set with their team. He only had 9 points in 13 games after coming back and 5 of those were in the last 5 games, when the team was set in stone. Schaefer would have been a big risk. But maybe he could have come in place of a guy they sat.

[Monahammer]

These things are immaterial. We lost this one, it doesn't really make sense to keep litigating the reason. We were pretty clearly winning the game statistically and by eye test watching it.

In the end, collective breakdown during 3-3 play and frankly a mediocre goalie sealed our fate.

If you look at the roster for next time, it isn't forward or defense we need to bring a better one of. We need a better goalie. Maybe it's playing Thompson as someone suggested, which I accept. Thompson is better than Binnington.
But I am talking longer term; there is no goalie pipeline in Canada. We are going to be choosing between Binningtons and maybe an occasional thompson for the next decade of international play.

That is a situation we need to address. We need to start developing goalies. The americans, russians, swedes and fins have this figured out. Maybe even the Czech too- Dostal is pretty damn good.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, does anyone think Chychrun, Raddysh and Geekie are doing anything other than having a freak year offensively?

Bedard I think came off his injury too late - they were pretty set with their team. He only had 9 points in 13 games after coming back and 5 of those were in the last 5 games, when the team was set in stone. Schaefer would have been a big risk. But maybe he could have come in place of a guy they sat.

Chychrun has a track record of being a very good defenseman. He has improved each year, and recently entered the prime of his career. I don't think this season is a flash in the pan.

Geekie had excellent underlying stats last year, and has continued that into this year. I don't think he's a flash in the pan either. And on a team that had its issues burying its chances in the elimination round, a pure scorer like him would have been good to have.

Raddysh is the only one of the three that has less of a track record. But the season he's having is so dominant, you can't convince me he isn't an upgrade over Parayko or Sanheim.

With Schaefer you could argue it's a risk to put an 18 year old on the team. But he's one of those rare talents who is mature beyond his years, just like Sidney was in 2006 when he was left off the team. Again an upgrade over most of the 4-Nations holdovers.

Bedard is simply too talented a player to leave off the team. Yes there was some risk that he wouldn't be 100% in time for the games, but then again even at 80% he's an upgrade over Seth Jarvis or Sam Bennett.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

In the end, collective breakdown during 3-3 We need to start developing goalies. The americans, russians, swedes and fins have this figured out. Maybe even the Czech too- Dostal is pretty damn good.

Make French-Canadian goalies great again

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

We need to start developing goalies.

It started a while ago, they just haven't hit the NHL yet. Carter George, Jack Ivankovic, and Josh Ravensbergen are all considered among the best goalie prospects in the league.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

This question is a red herring. The other goalie HAD to be elite because Canada absolutely dominated the semi and the final.

Not really. If Canada had a goalie that matched the guy on the other end, it's a repeat of 2014 and they get shutouts in the semis and gold medal game and definitely don't need OT to win in the QFs. Better goaltending doesn't have them trailing early in every game, letting the other teams just shell it up to protect the lead. In this kind of tournament, getting that early lead is massive since goals are hard to come by and teams are content to try to win 1-0 or 2-1.

Binnington wasn't the reason they lost but he easily could've been the reason they won. Canada just accepted mediocrity in net because he played well for one game at the 4 Nations. It's hard to say it "cost them" but it's no different than any of the other selections people debate. Sanheim or Parayko didn't cost Team Canada given Canada's possession dominance but better selections could've pushed them over the edge.

[Enoch Root]

I don't think their struggles stemmed from goaltending at all. They dominated territorial play in every game, but the puck wasn't going in for them. Once the bounces start going their way, they're steamrolling every team, including the US. That game should have ended 4-1. And it wasn't because Helley stood on his head so much as it was that they just weren't connecting on their chances.

MacKinnon scores, and there is no mention of goaltending this week.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't think their struggles stemmed from goaltending at all. They dominated territorial play in every game, but the puck wasn't going in for them. Once the bounces start going their way, they're steamrolling every team, including the US. That game should have ended 4-1. And it wasn't because Helley stood on his head so much as it was that they just weren't connecting on their chances.

MacKinnon scores, and there is no mention of goaltending this week.

Their struggles didn't stem from goaltending. But the door was open for goaltending to win them the tournament pretty easily and Binnington just isn't good enough to do that.

Canada really didn't struggle at anything but people still question the bottom 6 forward and bottom 4 defense picks. Which is great - Canada shouldn't be accepted medicrity anywhere in the roster. But for some reason, mediocre goalie isn't an issue for lots of Canadians.

If Canada gets elite goaltending as these types of tournaments, it's almost impossible for them to lose unless they get horrendous bounces or it turns into teams trading powerplays. Getting pretty good goaltending opens the door for a lot of these games to flip. If they get elite goaltending, Canada isn't down early in every game and giving the opposition the chance to turtle.

[Enoch Root]

they lost 2-1 in OT. Goaltending is not why they lost. They should have scored 4.

[Itse]

I feel like I should remind you, that Canada dominated chances and possession three games in a row, and couldn't put any of those three games away. One is bad luck, two is a coincidence, three is a pattern.

I would argue you got somewhat lucky that it was only the third game where those scoring issues ended up costing you. One bad bounce or one badly timed whistle more against you and you lose those previous games.

That team should have been scoring more 5 on 5.

[FanIn80]

Wtf. Are we actually blaming goaltending now?

Yikes.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Binnington pretty much made the saves he needed to including several clutch saves in big moments.

But the overall stats tell the story. Hellebuyck stole the tourney.

He had a GSAA of 5.92. I think 32 thoughts podcast said that his GSAA in the final game was 4.5. Which is nuts.

In comparison Binnington had a GSAA of 0.48.

He was good enough for the team to win, but he wasn't spectacular. I don't think he deserves to be blamed.

https://hockeystats.com/olympics/goalie-stats

[GioforPM]

I always think it's weird to think about Goalie X v Goalie Y in a game. They have nothing to do with each other's play, they don't really go head to head and they don't face the same shooters.

Hellebuyck was very good in the final. But then again, to me the key wasn't him making the big saves (outside of the paddle save). It was Mackinnon missing and a Dman on the goal line stopping a puck which had already passed Hellebuck.

I find it hard to criticize a 3 on 3 loss.

[Flamesfan05]

No, Hellebuyk was a hero. It’s him making the big saves, it’s him that made them missed the bet trying to pick a spot.

He won it for them. You can’t pick a few random cases in the game and say what if or it’s not because of him