Are the Flames re-building?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Simple question.
We can follow up with a question about if their re-build is aggressive enough or not. But simple yes/no. Are they re-building?

The poll is different than your question.

Clearly they are rebuilding. But your question asks if they are being aggressive enough.

Apples and oranges.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Anyone with half a brain cell knows you're gonna use this poll for the next two years to prove that you're right about whatever it is you're arguing about at the time.

Even your wording "out of touch about the Flames rebuild" indicates you're now using this as "94% of CP thinks they're rebuilding properly" instead of what the poll was actually asking.

No that's not what the poll is. I was very clear on what the poll was and wasn't.

I'll start a separate poll on if they are re-building properly.

You can then call that one stupid too.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Which delayed the rebuild imo. I'm sure that Conroy expected to be in a sellers position and keep our own pick while giving Montreal the Florida pick. Sometimes circumstance is a b***

Still ended up pretty good, with the Flames snagging a steal in Reschny.

There was a bunch of centres that went between 4-18, that all seem to be doing quite similar in their +1 draft year. Although I guess the Flames could have taken Kindel, if they'd drafted higher, who is the only of those guys playing in the NHL.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by circle

One does not simply answer yes/no to a yes/no poll.

Nes

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The poll is different than your question.

Clearly they are rebuilding. But your question asks if they are being aggressive enough.

Apples and oranges.

No.
I am asking people to say if the Flames are re-building or not. That's what I'm asking. I've been very clear.

We can ask separate questions on if they are re-building well enough/aggressive enough etc. but that's NOT what I'm asking here and I was very clear on it.

[CliffFletcher]

They're turning over veterans who don't intend to be here long term in exchange for picks and prospects.

They don't want to deliberately finish bottom-five for multiple seasons, the way Chicago, San Jose, and Anaheim have done in recent years.

Call it what you want.

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by starseed

Can these people let us know the strain of their last purchase?


calgaryboy, Flames_F.T.W, Jason14h, topfiverecords

I can’t believe this post has’t gotten any traction for thanks, quotes for more jokes or even bad responses.

[Robbob]

it was an obvious yes to me. I think it will still be the case after this trade deadline.

Flames picks in the first 3 round.
2024 - 9, 28, 41, 62, 74, 84
2025 - 18, 32, 54, 80
Currently expected to pick as of Jan 27
2026 - 4ish, 29ish, 36ish, 65ish 69ish
2027 - early first, late first, early 2nd, early 3rd

Sitting at 19 picks with the potential of more higher picks from Kadri, Coleman, and Whitecloud.

So top picks ranging from 19 to 24 over a 4 year period.

Obviously the key is the player selected in the next few drafts.

Compared to other rebuild teams:
SJ - 17th picks
2023 - 4, 26, 36, 71
2024 - 1, 11, 33, 53, 82
2025 - 2, 30, 33, 53, 95
2026 - 17ish, 20ish, 64ish

Chi picks - 24 picks
2023 - 1, 19, 35, 44, 55, 67, 93
2024 - 2, 18, 27, 67, 72, 92
2025 - 3, 25, 29, 66
2026 - 6ish, 16ish, 38ish, 45ish, 51ish, 70ish

These are 2 of the pro rebuild teams. I picked 4 years but even if you add that 5th year I think the Flames are right in there with the picks. I think a lot of what is driving the rebiggle is that we haven't gotten that one piece yet. If I have time, I might go back and add up the draft pick value, which might also be an interesting exercise or metric.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

If that was true they would have moved more players during last season and kept a top 10 pick

Last year threw a wrench in the long term plan to rebuild. They outperformed expectations by a ridiculous amount. Conroy made a tough call in not trading anyone then, but luckily, nobody could really have been traded away that mattered.

The one trade they made brought in Farabee and Frost, which you could maybe argue was a "win now" move, but they were seeing if they could get something in return for two rapidly declining value assets in Kuzmenko and Pelletier. In return they got two youngish players that may have been a long term fit. It didn't work out, but I like both players more than the guys we sent out. Even if we gave up a 2nd as well, I'm not sweating them drafting Shane Vansaghi and his 8 points in 22 games at Michigan State.

In the end, they increased the value on those assets and will likely get something decent for futures or picks when and if they trade Farabee and Frost away.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If a person has a dilapated house, and they sit on it for a few years and allow things to start falling in, and finally rot seeps through a retaining wall and most of the roof comes down, do you say: that person demolished their house!

I would not. I think that's what we're looking at here.

They didn't sit on it for a few years.

They let the siding blow away in the wind. Then right after that they traded all the windows for twice as many but lower quality ones and some cash, and now half don't do anything to keep the wind out most nights. Next they paid someone to take the stove that only needed a little repair work and replaced it with an equally expensive yet high quality older model.

Then they traded some newer door knobs for some older more reliable door knobs. Then they traded a high end dishwasher for a newer model and some cash. Next they sold the fridge for some cash and just used a camping cooler in its place until the new one arrived.

Next they sold off the old water heater for lots of cash, a brand new high end furnace and a Russian humidifier. Then they sold off the security system for some cash and an electric fireplace.

Sold all the plumbing fixtures for some cash and a ladder. Stripped out the hardwood flooring, sold the scrap for some cash and bought a few odds and ends from the re-use it store.

After that they sold the front door for cash and some really solid hardwood flooring. Then they sold some burned out light fixtures for some cash.

Next they traded a bathroom mirror, the russian humidifier and some cash for a washer/dryer combo.

Then they bought some new cabinets from the re-use it store.

Finally they stripped the roof off, found a sucker to take it all and pay cash, and put on a temporary fix. Rebiggle over.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Anyone with half a brain cell knows you're gonna use this poll for the next two years to prove that you're right about whatever it is you're arguing about at the time.

Even your wording "out of touch about the Flames rebuild" indicates you're now using this as "94% of CP thinks they're rebuilding properly" instead of what the poll was actually asking.

Our sweet boys are big mad at a poll existing.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well it was suggested that the majority of fans don't believe the Flames are re-building. Seems like that needed to be settled.

Apologies for calling it stupid, btw. Misguided or not the right question would have been better choices probably.

[SuperMatt18]

They have been rebuilding for sure.

I think from June 2023 to June 2024 they were actively tearing down the roster: Toffoli, Zadorov, Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, Markstrom, and Mangiapane were all moved out over a 12 month period in primarily futures driven trades.

Then there was a bit of an 18 month holding period, but they were still rebuilding, just not quite ready and didn't have a pressing need to tear it down any further and think the strong 24/25 season left room for them to pause and rethink things.

Now I do think they are at a bit of a fulcrum again where they moved Andersson, and really should be moving Coleman and Kadri.

I think you could argue they aren't quite proactive enough in some instances, but overall it's still a rebuild

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Robbob

it was an obvious yes to me. I think it will still be the case after this trade deadline.

Flames picks in the first 3 round.
2024 - 9, 28, 41, 62, 74, 84
2025 - 18, 32, 54, 80
Currently expected to pick as of Jan 27
2026 - 4ish, 29ish, 36ish, 65ish 69ish
2027 - early first, late first, early 2nd, early 3rd

Sitting at 19 picks with the potential of more higher picks from Kadri, Coleman, and Whitecloud.

So top picks ranging from 19 to 24 over a 4 year period.

Obviously the key is the player selected in the next few drafts.

Compared to other rebuild teams:
SJ - 17th picks
2023 - 4, 26, 36, 71
2024 - 1, 11, 33, 53, 82
2025 - 2, 30, 33, 53, 95
2026 - 17ish, 20ish, 64ish

Chi picks - 24 picks
2023 - 1, 19, 35, 44, 55, 67, 93
2024 - 2, 18, 27, 67, 72, 92
2025 - 3, 25, 29, 66
2026 - 6ish, 16ish, 38ish, 45ish, 51ish, 70ish

These are 2 of the pro rebuild teams. I picked 4 years but even if you add that 5th year I think the Flames are right in there with the picks. I think a lot of what is driving the rebiggle is that we haven't gotten that one piece yet. If I have time, I might go back and add up the draft pick value, which might also be an interesting exercise or metric.

The number of picks is fine - but its the 1st, 2nd and 3rd (4th) overall picks that are missing. And that involves being terrible for a couple of years.

[Finger Cookin]

Voted yes, because "jfc" wasn't an option.

FWIW, in my opinion the rebuild started on Jan 31, 2024 when Lindholm was traded.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Anyone with half a brain cell knows you're gonna use this poll for the next two years to prove that you're right about whatever it is you're arguing about at the time.

Even your wording "out of touch about the Flames rebuild" indicates you're now using this as "94% of CP thinks they're rebuilding properly" instead of what the poll was actually asking.

There was a poster...you can probably guess who, that said.

"If the Flames were rebuilding opinions on here wouldn't be so split that proves they aren't rebuilding"

This poll was made, why you haff to be mad?

[Knut]

• Two players left from their peak season.
  
• In 2021/22 they were the 6th oldest team, now they are the 12th youngest.
  
• 6th Lowest Cap hit in the NHL
  
• Trade 1 draft pick in the past 3 seasons (2nd in the Frost/Farabee deal)
  
• Offloading Vets in the final year of their deal
  
• 31 different players have played for the team this season. That does not happen on contending teams.
  
• Honzek, Gridine, Bruzstewicz, Parekh, Kuznetsov, Morton, Kerins, Stromgren all have equal to or more games played than Dryden Hunt.
  
• This is a rebuild. However anyone can question that is baffling to me. Last year was an outlier year and they did not even try to add at the deadline.
  
• Even if Kadri/Coleman do not move this season I bet you get some pending UFAs on go (Lomberg, Hanley, Pachal).
  
• Its a rebuild until we start purchasing vets to supplement a young roster.

[Jiri Hrdina]

So obviously there is a lot of interest in exploring this further.

My proposal for a 2nd question would be

“On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 meaning not satisfied at all, and 10 being extremely satisfied, how satisfied are you with the Flames re-build up until this point.”.

Satisfaction has a bunch of dimensions. How aggressive they have been, how proactive, if they should have started earlier. People can choose to consider whatever dimensions they want. But would people accept that as a good 2nd stage question?

[Flames_F.T.W]

I voted "no" but if they move out Coleman and Kadri I'd change my vote. It still seems like they don't want to fully lean into it. Feels somewhere between a rebuild and a retool

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So obviously there is a lot of interest in exploring this further.

My proposal for a 2nd question would be

“On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 meaning not satisfied at all, and 10 being extremely satisfied, how satisfied are you with the Flames re-build up until this point.”.

Satisfaction has a bunch of dimensions. How aggressive they have been, how proactive, if they should have started earlier. People can choose to consider whatever dimensions they want. But would people accept that as a good 2nd stage question?

This will be the much more interesting discussion as this poll is super lopsided