The Flames' handling/plan for Zayne Parekh..

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Umm you know Bennett played over 400 games as a Flame right? lol

But imagine if they handled his nuts better? Who knows what could have happened.

[Canada 02]

nm

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by fotze2

But imagine if they handled his nuts better? Who knows what could have happened.

hahaha. the best was when my cousin has to console him when he was crying on Johnny's couch. "I'm never going to get off the 3rd line am I?" lol

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So is your comparison more that this is like this is what happened to Sven, Sam , both or someone else?

I can see the comparisons to Sam because he also couldn't go to the AHL. But I think the issues with Sam were very different.

I don’t think anything has particularly happened yet with Zane, I’m just noting Sam and Sven as past examples of talented players that perhaps could have benefitted from different handling.

Sam turned out ok but never lived up to his pedigree with the Flames. I think there’s a strong sentiment on CP that his development wasn’t ideal, partly due to the lack of options.

Sven suffered a big set back with his concussions but having Burke calling him out publicly on his defence was probably not a great development strategy.

I’m not saying the Flames are doing anything wrong with Zane - though between his injury, play, lack of play, WJC, conditioning stint it’s fair to say this is a chaotic first year. I’m just noting that he is a special player and a challenging development project, and hope he and the team figure it out.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It was him and Hartley. Hartley reportedly treated him very badly. I think Shane O Brien had to step in at one point.
Going a bit off memory.

Burke didn’t help either

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I don’t think anything has particularly happened yet with Zane, I’m just noting Sam and Sven as past examples of talented players that perhaps could have benefitted from different handling.

Sam turned out ok but never lived up to his pedigree with the Flames. I think there’s a strong sentiment on CP that his development wasn’t ideal, partly due to the lack of options.

Sven suffered a big set back with his concussions but having Burke calling him out publicly on his defence was probably not a great development strategy.

I’m not saying the Flames are doing anything wrong with Zane - though between his injury, play, lack of play, WJC, conditioning stint it’s fair to say this is a chaotic first year. I’m just noting that he is a special player and a challenging development project, and hope he and the team figure it out.

Sven's issue was Hartley. Plus, he wasn't that good.

Bennett's issue was slotting - he is best as a C, but the team had 3 centers ahead of him - and one of those was already playing wing. He wasn't going to be the shutdown C over Backlund, and he had Monahan and Lindholm on the first line. Plus, he had some flaws in his game, like his tunnel vision and tendency to try toe-drags and other junior moves, which I think he has corrected after getting traded. I suspect he figured he'd better perform better in Florida.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Problem is its not just fans, but some mainstream media too.

And it's driving me nuts, they're living and dying on comments made by a 19 year old and then start chumming the waters.

LET'S ALL JUST STOP AND TAKE A BREATH.

[Lewis_D]

Put him in the pressbox for a couple games, Eat half a dozen pocket dogs a game to add some lbs and come back beefier and stronger.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

He's got the skill, that's obvious. He's not the greatest defensively and will make mistakes, he'll get better in that respect.

As others have said my biggest concern is the physical play and inability to take a hit. Feels like every time he's getting hit against the boards I'm expecting him to suffer an injury. He needs to bulk up a little bit and learn how to take a hit. He's not ready yet, too bad he can't spend this season, and maybe next, in the AHL. When he's ready he will be a good one.

[Enoch Root]

Zayne

[howard_the_duck]

The Flames offensive scheme is so simple and shot volume-driven that I worry trying to mold him to what they're doing will a) not set him up to succeed and b) negatively impact his confidence when there aren't encouraging results.

The free-flowing, all out offense of the World Juniors the NHL is not. So, there has to be a balance. I just think there needs to be some movement from the Flames, schematically, to leverage his strengths beyond simply giving him PP time and O-zone starts. Unleash the shackles, lean into public encouragement and support of his offensive game, as confidence DOES seem like it's been an issue given some of his commentary at the WJC.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I suspect they're limiting his minutes not only because they don't want him up against top guys but also because they're concerned about strength and trying to prevent injuries. I'm convinced it's most heavily weighed to preventing injuries. Parekh is quite slight compared to NHLers and because he also hasn't yet quite adjusted to the speed of the NHL game to slip away from forechecker hits, he's high risk of getting hurt every time he's hit.

Pat has mentioned a few times the teams plan to up his strength during the Olympic break, which I think will help but a few weeks won't quite get him there. He's too talented of a player to be concerned about ending up being a flop. He won't find his game this season I don't think, but he's a motivated kid and after an off season focusing on strength and getting 'meatier' I think he'll be a lot better next year. I'm really hoping they start him in the A next year for at least 2 months or so, then bring him up for good.

Edit to add that I do agree he makes mistakes on reads and giveaways, etc but I truly don't think that's too much of a concern even for the coaches. If I had to bet, I'd bet they're confident he'll be fine defensively. They're biggest concern right now in my view is his strength and ability to absorb/slip hits from NHLers.

Send him to Camp Pospisil in Slovakia this summer.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It was him and Hartley. Hartley reportedly treated him very badly. I think Shane O Brien had to step in at one point.
Going a bit off memory.

Aren't we all?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I suspect they're limiting his minutes not only because they don't want him up against top guys but also because they're concerned about strength and trying to prevent injuries. I'm convinced it's most heavily weighed to preventing injuries. Parekh is quite slight compared to NHLers and because he also hasn't yet quite adjusted to the speed of the NHL game to slip away from forechecker hits, he's high risk of getting hurt every time he's hit.

I think it's less about size and just that his decision making and reflexes are still tuned to the speed and aggression of the junior level. Being a second or half a second off can mean the difference between making a bad play, getting pinned in your zone, and worst of all. getting pummeled/injured. These aren't "mistakes". When people say "let him make mistakes", I agree, but there is a difference between a mistake and simply being out of your depth as a 19 year old prospect.

Very few defensemen make the adjustment to the NHL immediately from junior, so it isn't a knock on him. He does some things exceptionally well, but in other ways he is still a normal prospect needing a normal development path, hence why he was a 9th OA and not a top 3. Crowning a 19 year old as the next king is such an Oilers thing to do. I really think they need to take their time here and fans need to be patient. No need to throw him to the wolves.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

There is a massive difference in the speed of the game between junior and AHL, and then between AHL and NHL. In an ideal world, he would get used to the speed in the AHL first and then be called up, but we don't live in that world.

The only two things he really needs to work on to stick in the NHL right now are related to the speed of the NHL: decision making speed (both offensively and defensively) and reacting in time to avoid taking a big hit. The defensive awareness stuff is always a work in progress for rookies, and that will be taught as he goes on in his career.

The only way he gets better at that is to play in the NHL. If he needs a game off now and then to watch from above and learn how to anticipate the play, so be it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

There is a massive difference in the speed of the game between junior and AHL, and then between AHL and NHL. In an ideal world, he would get used to the speed in the AHL first and then be called up, but we don't live in that world.

The only two things he really needs to work on to stick in the NHL right now are related to the speed of the NHL: decision making speed (both offensively and defensively) and reacting in time to avoid taking a big hit. The defensive awareness stuff is always a work in progress for rookies, and that will be taught as he goes on in his career.

The only way he gets better at that is to play in the NHL. If he needs a game off now and then to watch from above and learn how to anticipate the play, so be it.

People get so mad when a kid is given a game or two to observe, but don't we all see stuff from the stands that players probably don't? I do think that there should be someone with them though, it shouldn't just be munching popcorn - it should be active.

[indes]

Well the team that developed Quinn Hughes is letting Buium have at it. Flames' fans are worked up because we've seen this movie before. It's not complicated at all, the more he plays in the NHL the better he will get at playing in the NHL. Up, down, loaned out, scratched, PP mins, no PP mins. There is a point where it has to be given so it can be earned. We've even heard players say that Huska wants you to play a responsible brand of hockey before he will lengthen your leash. I get it but the jury will be out for a while until he actually gets a crack at it.

[BagoPucks]

Trade him.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Baertschi is a funny thing - some people will point at the Hartley altercation where Baertschi ended up crying as the 'this is why he didn't work out'. While I believe it was obviously wrong of Hartley to have had that strong of a reaction to Sven, the reaction came for a reason, right? I mean, Hartley wasn't going off on everyone like that. In fact, one of the big issues with Hartley was that he preferred the youth and got along better with young players. It was always the vets that he would have issues with.


I remember when Sven played on the Flames, I started noticing how damn lazy he was. He just glided everywhere. If I was at the game, I could count how many strides he would take on some shifts on one hand. That was Baertschi.


Sure, his concussion probably made him avoid contact, hence his terrible efforts on puck battles. That at least has some underlying explanation... but the lack of actual strides out there? Baertschi to me was sticking out like a sore thumb compared to the 'hard working' Flames - everyone skated and competed hard, except for Baertschi.


I also think part of the issue when it came to Baertschi was Feaster - he forced Baertschi on the roster. I had my suspicions by this point. The instant that Burke fired Feaster, he demoted Baertschi, and that's when the famous Burke speech came about from. He was bang on. That's what I was seeing - Baertshi worked hard in the offensive zone only, and even then not always.


Then there was also that sense of entitlement. Sven spoke about it when he went to Vancouver - how they would call someone else up 'as if to throw it in his face'. Vancouver didn't change anything.


So morale of the story - Sven was lazy and would never have worked out especially considering he had a sense of entitlement, Hartley was an ass that treated people poorly, Feaster wanted his 'young superstar' in the NHL to appease his own vanity, and Burke should have given that feedback to Baertschi in private.


When it comes to Bennett, the issue was that he simply wasn't given enough rope. This is the message from Conroy himself, and he basically stated that not every prospect is the same, and that it can't always be fair. Sometimes a prospect just needs more rope than a different prospect, and that Bennett should have had that here. I think Conroy was right, as Bennett got that rope right away in Florida, and never looked back. He was also looking like he was turning around under Darryl Sutter here, but that's a small sample size.


Neither of these cases have anything to do with Parekh. Conroy was here for both Baertschi and for Bennett. I am sure he has his own thoughts on how to bring up prospects the right way. Parekh doesn't strike me as lazy, and I do believe that if he does falter, that Conroy will make sure that he gets enough rope until it is absolutely obvious that he isn't an NHL'er. Until then, I wouldn't worry about past prospects not making it - not every prospect makes it, and there are many things that can stunt development. Other than the injury, I thought Parekh was progressing nicely, including defensively. Offence wasn't quite there, but like I said in my previous post, the entire team was playing lousy offensively at the time.


I am not really worried about Parekh still, other than him not having that awareness as guys target him. That's my one and only worry about him. I think he will end up as an offensive dynamo, and that his defence will be fine too - I doubt he will end up like "BouchDumb" up north, and I would be very surprised if he busts. Too much IQ in the kid, and too much maturity. Exactly how good he will be is the million dollar question, but I think he was developing fine in the NHL up until his injury.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by indes

Well the team that developed Quinn Hughes is letting Buium have at it. Flames' fans are worked up because we've seen this movie before. It's not complicated at all, the more he plays in the NHL the better he will get at playing in the NHL. Up, down, loaned out, scratched, PP mins, no PP mins. There is a point where it has to be given so it can be earned. We've even heard players say that Huska wants you to play a responsible brand of hockey before he will lengthen your leash. I get it but the jury will be out for a while until he actually gets a crack at it.

Ok but what are the examples of this?
Sam.
Who else?

I think this is a lot of conjecture without a lot of basis.

Where is the pattern of poor development by the Flames. Specifics please.