Recall the UCP and other activist responses

[calf]

Calgary NW MLA Rajan Sawhney is hosting an open house Saturday afternoon from 1-3 at the Lynx Ridge Golf Course. I'm hoping to make it there to share my thoughts and outrage.

[Caged Great]

Up over 1200 now after just a couple days with only a few people canvassing. Looking forward to getting my certification tomorrow to go and canvas.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Up over 1200 now after just a couple days with only a few people canvassing. Looking forward to getting my certification tomorrow to go and canvas.

Woooooooooooooooooooow.

I'm not going to lie, already reporting 7.5% is pretty exciting.

Do you need anything from us?

[Caged Great]

https://recallnicolaides.ca/participate/

If you are in the district you can volunteer to collect signatures and I’m sure they will have suggestions if you ask.

Also going to be reaching out to the universities to see if we can collect signatures there as well due to the likelihood some of the students might have siblings that were affected by this all.

[Caged Great]

The amount of vitriol being directed at the ucp and Nicoledes by the people signing was very encouraging.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

https://recallnicolaides.ca/participate/

If you are in the district you can volunteer to collect signatures and I’m sure they will have suggestions if you ask.

Also going to be reaching out to the universities to see if we can collect signatures there as well due to the likelihood some of the students might have siblings that were affected by this all.

Nicolaides was the minister of advanced education before he was the minister of education. And he was as well-loved in that portfolio as he is now.

[Caged Great]

About 60 people have signed up to be canvassers. The goal is to get close to triple that just to reduce the workload on everyone. I don’t mind personally going anywhere to get this done.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

Nicolaides was the minister of advanced education before he was the minister of education. And he was as well-loved in that portfolio as he is now.

Yup, we had to educate the provincial government on student yield rates... they were shocked to learn that student's didn't immediately accept an offer of admission.

I'm just baffled by their continued incompetence on the education front... don't any of these idiots have kids?!?!?

[troutman]

What will be the point of elections if all sides constantly file recall petitions?

I say beat them at the ballot box.

[surferguy]

I think the NWC has really irked enough people to finally try and send a message. The UCP has kicked a hornets nest and ultimately this will lead to their downfall. I don’t know if it happens in the next six months or 2 years but the cracks are getting bigger and I’m hopeful the dam breaks soon.

Enough is enough. If recalls are the best tools to use to put their garbage to an end then so be it.

[5abi]

Originally Posted by troutman

What will be the point of elections if all sides constantly file recall petitions?

I say beat them at the ballot box.

Right now it’s about weakening their immediate position and sending a message.

This is excellent use of a democratic tool

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by troutman

What will be the point of elections if all sides constantly file recall petitions?

I say beat them at the ballot box.

That's easy, it's the UCP themselves that introduced recalls.

#### Around Find Out.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

Yup, we had to educate the provincial government on student yield rates... they were shocked to learn that student's didn't immediately accept an offer of admission.

I'm just baffled by their continued incompetence on the education front... don't any of these idiots have kids?!?!?

No one's taking kickbacks from private schools that don't involve free tuiton

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by troutman

What will be the point of elections if all sides constantly file recall petitions?

I say beat them at the ballot box.

The simple argument is: Why give them the safety to do whatever they want once they are elected? 4-5 years is a long time to give them a free pass to run the government. If they do something so offensive to the people that they are meant to represent then it makes sense to give the people the ability to recall them. (Note, this is a limited ability as you only get to attempt it once per term and the requirements are still quite high)

Also, have you read the recall process? Once you jump through the hoops of submitting the petition, having it approved, getting citizens in the riding to volunteer as canvassers, and then collecting the required number of signatures... at that point all it does is trigger a recall vote. You need the recall vote to pass before the MLA is recalled and a by-election initiated.

What happens following a successful Recall petition?

The Lieutenant Governor in Council will order a recall vote to be conducted within 4 months of the date on which the successful petition results are published.

The question to be submitted to the electorate is whether the named member should be recalled.

A recall vote is successful if more than 50% of the electors who voted are in favour of the recall. If successful, the MLA is recalled and no longer an MLA, and a by-election is held in the electoral division.

Also, it is tragic that you are willing to wait to beat them at the ballot box but the UCP themselves are more than happy to change the rules to make recalls easier so that they can eliminate people they do not like (Gondek).

Don't forget Nicolaides own words about recalls: "Regardless of the election, im speaking generally about recall. It should be available no strings attached", "I prefer recall that is available regardless of the motivation. Should be free and readily available"

https://imgur.com/iJVuvk2

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Mickey76

That’s an interesting take on the convey people (calling them tards I guess is ok). The hypocrisy makes me smile. When the convey people called the vaccine mandatory virtually everyone here fiercely denied it. When they said “I’ll lose my job, my kid can’t go to daycare, and I can’t travel” the universal response was it was still a choice and not mandatory.

If it was mandatory everyone would have gotten it. The governments policies at just about every level around that time were questionable but I have yet to meet a single person who was forced to get a shot. Private jets would take you anywhere you wanted to go so long as the destination would allow you in. Commercial airlines can deny anyone service at anytime so that’s not a right. Employers can fire you for a lot of different things and vaccines were ruled on years before the pandemic even started. I get their frustration but the problem is they keep claiming the law was broken or that their rights were denied when whether they agree or disagree there was no legal basis for these claims.

No teachers have lost any rights. Nothing is stopping them from staying on strike. If they disagree and are principled they should stay on strike. As far as a fascist state, the constitution was negotiated by elected premiers. They put in a notwithstanding clause in the constitution. This clause can and has been used for labour disputes. The UCP was democratically elected and in negotiating with a union used all the tools in their democratically obtained toolbox. No ones rights have been trampled. Take your 12% raise and be happy, or stay on strike, or move.

Nothing is stopping them from continuing to strike? You mean aside from the charges, fines and it giving their employer just cause to terminate their employment? Weren’t you just complaining about unfairness for people who felt they were forced to lose their jobs?

Teachers lost their right to collectively bargain and instead had a contract imposed on them by their employer. That was an actual right they had, unlike say being able to board a commercial airplane.

The UCP used every tool in the toolbox? They didn’t even use the most obvious solution that didn’t require invoking the notwithstanding clause, ordering a return to work and having the matter resolved through binding arbitration.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by troutman

What will be the point of elections if all sides constantly file recall petitions?

I say beat them at the ballot box.

I get the sentiment, but it won't be an issue if you don't suck at your job, actually listen to your constituents, and don't ram through bills without due democratic process. Maybe really try not to abuse everyone's rights and freedoms by throwing them in trash either.

BC has had recall since 1995 IIRC and there is hardly a constant stream to replace politicians in that province. It is a lot of work to file and carry these things out and the only reason it is happening is because a huge number of Albertans are rightly pissed at what's going on.

Also, we should not have the one of the worst funded education system in the country and hearing these elected and well compensated MLAs gaslight us in attempt to believing it isn't possible is ridiculous.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by troutman

What will be the point of elections if all sides constantly file recall petitions?

I say beat them at the ballot box.

What's the point of charter rights if the government will just ignore them?

You can't wait for the ballot box when steps like that are taken, or by the time you're able to make a change they've already done what they can to nullify your vote.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by 5abi

Right now it’s about weakening their immediate position and sending a message.

This is excellent use of a democratic tool

I’m thinking about a slippery slope. We recall one of their guys, they will try to recall ours. x 10.

People tried to recall Gondek. People camped outside her personal residence.

https://www.projectcalgary.org/recal...tion_is_a_flop

Evidence obtained by Mount Royal University political scientist Duane Bratt reveals what appears to be a substantial organization behind the “grassroots” Recall Gondek campaign involving far-right UCP Board members and Take Back Alberta social conservatives.

CTV News reports that the document also includes a list of “high-profile” Albertans who have allegedly contributed tens of thousands of dollars to the campaign. According to CBC News, various members of the team are allegedly "paid, full-time" staff working 50 to 60 hours per week.

Google AI overview:

Arguments for recalls being undemocratic

Undermine stability: Some argue that the threat of a recall election can lead to political paralysis and instability.
Polarization: Recalls can be used as a political weapon, encouraging parties to sabotage opponents and increase polarization.
Undue influence: While proponents argue for more accountability, critics might argue that recalls can give disproportionate power to small groups of voters or political opponents to disrupt the democratic process.
"Chilling effect": The constant threat of a recall could make politicians risk-averse, discouraging them from making bold but necessary decisions.

Arguments against recalls being undemocratic

Enhance accountability: Supporters see recalls as a democratic tool to hold elected officials accountable to their constituents, especially when they believe an official is not serving their interests.
Increase representation: By giving the electorate a way to act between elections, recalls can give people a greater sense of being represented.
Strengthen the mandate: Some evidence suggests that recalls may have improved trust in government in certain contexts.
A check on power: Like other checks and balances in a democracy, recalls can prevent elected officials from overstepping their authority without fearing consequences.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by troutman

I’m thinking about a slippery slope. We recall one of their guys, they will try to recall ours. x 10.

People tried to recall Gondek. People camped outside her personal residence.

They already brandished it (and made it easier to achieve) against Gondek and like you posted, they put serious effort into it. They will use it again even if no one else tries, so it's not a slippery slope. They greased the slope years ago.

[Hot_Flatus]

^^Again, it is extremely unlikely to reach the bar of 60% of constituents in a riding signing such a petition unless there are gross deficiencies by the MLA(s) (this is a pretty unique situation and we don't see this happening in BC frequently). Even so, there would still need to be a new bi-election as a result as well and both mechanisms pretty well guard against anything fishy IMO.