[Rumour] Dailyfaceoff: Flames might go big game hunting this summer

[Monahammer]

Yeah, you identified the exact two players SM, and you seem to agree. So, you and I both know and agree that they could have actually given an attempt to tank and gain the max assets for the pieces they had, but it seems like we agree they didn't actually do that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sure, maybe. But that would have actually been "giving it a shot" rather than what we did. I'm not focused on the pick here, I'm talking about this narrative that this season was a legit attempt at a rebuild on the fly. It wasn't.

Second most cap space in the league disagrees with you no matter how much whinging you muster

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Who is moose?

Messier

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I hate that "took a shot at it" narrative. Sure, they sat on their hands, but there were 2-3 obvious other moves they could have made to drop further.

Look at how the team fell apart when down one extra defensemen for stretches. You exit one more defensemen and one more forward pre christmas this year and we'd be using our top 10 pick. That would have been a real "took a shot at it". Instead, they pretty much did what they always do, tried to fill the roster with some underperforming vets, made a trade for mid roster players, and played on. Clearly, they're still not allowed to say "that R word".

Not building the franchise properly now just means we will have to do it later. And the Wolf's too good to let it happen later crowd need only go look at John Gibson for a test case.

In what way did they do this?
They signed Mantha as a buy low and flip candidate, but apart from that how did they try to fill out the roster with vets?

[Monahammer]

It really doesn't prove anything. There aren't even good examples of players we could have used the cap space on last off season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sure, maybe. But that would have actually been "giving it a shot" rather than what we did. I'm not focused on the pick here, I'm talking about this narrative that this season was a legit attempt at a rebuild on the fly. It wasn't.

Of course it was. "On the fly" doesn't mean tank. It means making what chanegs are feasible at any given time. Probably for younger players amd not picks. Everything Conroy has done was for either picks or younger players.

He took a shot, just not how you wanted. You wanted the shot to include intentional losses.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In what way did they do this?
They signed Mantha as a buy low and flip candidate, but apart from that how did they try to fill out the roster with vets?

Barrie was the other one. Mantha and Barrie are exactly that though. Doesn't matter that they both failed spectacularly, that's why they were here.

[Lewis_D]

Maybe Daily Faceoff misinterpreted this rumour. I think what's actually happening is that for a team bonding experience during preseason the rookies will all go on a big game hunting trip.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Of course it was. "On the fly" doesn't mean tank. It means making what chanegs are feasible at any given time. Probably for younger players amd not picks. Everything Conroy has done was for either picks or younger players.

He took a shot, just not how you wanted. You wanted the shot to include intentional losses.

No, I just wanted a ####tier overall team, not some cobbled together franken team.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

In the end I think the Flames have been pretty consistent in that they arent willing to go as deep as Chicago, San Jose, etc went in their teardown to guarantee a top 5 pick.

They took at shot at being bad this year IMO (No proven goalies, 2 proven d-men, suspect forward group, lowest salary cap in the league) and somehow landed in the 16th OV pick.

So now you have to make a decision...do you tear it down even further to try and be even worse which maybe still doesn't guarantee a top 5 pick.

Or do you try to build more gradually just by continually adding talent via the draft, FA, and trades, but never really bottoming out.

Personally I think as long as the asset management remains strong (move out the aging players for picks / prospects, dont sign retirement contracts for 29+ players, focus on trying to bring in elite talent) then it's fine.

There is more than one way to win as long as management is patient and makes long term decisions without selling out for the short term.

Going after somebody like Marner is fine IMO...just don't go overspend on the Boeser and Bennett's of the world.

I mostly agree with your take here.


The only thing I would add is that I feel it is important to look at the top of the drafts coming up if you find yourself in the bottom half of the NHL. Is the top of the draft "good" but not "great'? Then a slower rebuild makes even more sense. However, with the kind of drafts coming up in the next 2-3 starting next year, maybe it does make more sense to bring it down a couple of notches and set yourself up for a crack at them - you probably don't walk away with all 3, but 1 of them is likely over that span. Still have to gauge where your team is really at in that spectrum. I can see a good argument both ways - removing a few pegs and going after McKenna, Dupont and possibly Shultz, or simply continuing what you are doing and draft wherever your team finishes and look for opportunities to add talent as they come up.


What I would never do is try and tank in a year - especially over a few seasons - where there isn't 'star franchise' players available. I also wouldn't try to trade futures for win-now players when the team is in the bottom half either, as that's' just ensuring that you eventually are forced into a 'burn it to the ground' rebuild at some point.



I like what Conroy has been doing, and I find this off-season one that is incredibly difficult to predict.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Barrie was the other one. Mantha and Barrie are exactly that though. Doesn't matter that they both failed spectacularly, that's why they were here.

Lombo too actually.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Lewis_D

Maybe Daily Faceoff misinterpreted this rumour. I think what's actually happening is that for a team bonding experience during preseason the rookies will all go on a big game hunting trip.

They're hunting Mitch Marner for sport?

[Monahammer]

The flames also allegedly were interested in Chandler Stephenson, and I heard downlow they wanted Stamkos but there was no interest from the other side.

The other part that I hate about the narrative is that I genuinely believe it was unintentional. They wanted to spend more of that cap space but couldnt find anyone to dance.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah, you identified the exact two players SM, and you seem to agree. So, you and I both know and agree that they could have actually given an attempt to tank and gain the max assets for the pieces they had, but it seems like we agree they didn't actually do that.

No we don't agree.

I think they did give it a shot to get a top 5 pick, because based on the decisions made the 18 months prior they clearly did.

You just aren't happy they didn't do even more, which is fine, but it's being dishonest to act like they didn't give it a shot and had plans to compete in the offseason just because they didn't move out everyone.

They did more than teams like Nashville, Islanders, Utah did to suck and should have even worse than those teams based on offseason moves and the rosters...but those teams have top 5 picks and the Flames don't.

You need to separate process and outcome. Sure the outcome of the season not permitting a top 5 pick is frustrating, but it's not because Conroy made bad short term decisions to try to get into the playoffs.

I'm sure the Flames had interest in UFA centers too, since we had two natural Cs on the roster to start the season and no real C prospects. That's not really a secret as Conroy admitted that. But he also said he wasn't willing to commit the money and term the players wanted. Which is fine, that's his job as a GM.

I don't get how the people that say "Wolf is the only reason the team didn't get a top 5 pick" can also argue that "Conroy didn't do enough to make the team bad"...like it's only one or the other, it can't be both.

[Wastedyouth]

Marner here we come!

[Erick Estrada]

I don't mind going after Marner because he's worth the money but after him I don't see any UFA's that's going to help the Flames enough to warrant the size of contracts expected. Ehlers would help create offense but given his injury issues you are getting a 60 point guy on a good year when he plays enough games and the price will probably not be worth it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Barrie was the other one. Mantha and Barrie are exactly that though. Doesn't matter that they both failed spectacularly, that's why they were here.

Neither of those guys played. And I doubt you can say Mantha failed. He got injured after playing well. I'm pretty sure the plan was to flip either guy if they did well anyway.

It doesn't change the fact the Flames got younger and accrued picks. You just want it all at once (in aid of a high pick in a mediocre draft year)

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Precisely. For those hoping for Marner, I'd cheer that the Leafs get eliminated soon.

I think the idea here is that if you acquire a legitimate elite player, he will lift all boats- especially that of Huberdeau perhaps and he might return to being a 80-90 point player as well.

Having Marner + Huberdeau leading the offence with Parekh/Weegar on the back end and Wolf in net... I mean it could work. The big problem here is that the Center spot is still sorely lacking unless Frost really breaks out.

The thing with Marner is he is a winger that could easily be moved to centre. His entire game is already more suited to centre than wing, you would just need to work on his faceoffs. I believe that would be the plan if they could sign Marner is to play him down the middle.

[howard_the_duck]

I hope not. This would be a concerning direction for the franchise, so hopefully just another in a long list of offseason rumors.

[Caged Great]

Perpetual mediocrity incoming. This is the reason why the Flames continually suck forever.