English Debates

[FurnaceFace]

Harper's closing killed me. He started and ended off with the typical smirk which made me think he's a 14 year old kid giving a speech with his best friend making faces at him.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

Harper's closing killed me. He started and ended off with the typical smirk which made me think he's a 14 year old kid giving a speech with his best friend making faces at him.

I think he was told to smile more.... I don't think it's helping.

[transplant99]

Is Duceppe trying to somehow invlove the Tories in the Option Canada scandal?

[KevanGuy]

Layton's closing jab at the Tories and Libs for acting 'rehearsed' was pretty hollow considering he was READING his closing statement.

[Shawnski]

Anyone want to see a user controlable version of Tekken take place right about now with these guys? Kick the crap out of each other!!!

[WCE]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

That snake oil can't possibly be sold though WCE. The cost of an NDP government has been seen in BC and Sask before.

While his GOALS are commendable, the end doesn't justify the means.

I don't think that even as a supporter I would ever want to see that party with a majority, but I would really like to see them have a stronger voice in Canadian poltics.

I am not a big business guy, I could give...If some oil company gets a tax break or not. I know that isn't a popular sentiment in Alberta but I like to shoot from the hip and be honest about this stuff, I am not a fan of hiding behind the rhetoric.

I want more green friendly policies...I want a government that doesn't bend over because they have buddies in the oil or car businesses.

I want my money to go to hyrbrid or battery power car technology. How about making it less expensive to buy healthy food? Wind power technology? Green jobs? Medicare? Crushing tuition costs?

It wouldn't bother me as much, but it doesn't seem like Harper or Martin give a hot damn about creating a cleaner, greener, safer place to live. And that is troubling to me.

I think the time for the liberals is over, but as I said in the other thread, I cannot vote for a guy who took out a full page ad in the Wall Street Journal apologizing for Canada not invading Iraq.

[Patek23]

That ending was pretty funny, all of the four canditates lost on stage looking for their assistants aka. actual runners of the show.

[Kaon]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

Harper's closing killed me. He started and ended off with the typical smirk which made me think he's a 14 year old kid giving a speech with his best friend making faces at him.

Unfortunately, I think that is what qualifies for a real smile from Harper. The guy needs to stand in front of a mirror and practice a real smile for a couple of hours. It would have probably helped him more in this debate then anything else.

Have to love the follow-up program here with Royal Canadian Air Farce mocking both Belinda and the Liberal party.

[FurnaceFace]

Summary of the debate over on Newsworld

[browna]

Moderator with a great burn on Layton 10 mins ago, basiclly him saying that it sounds from all (the BS) Layton is saying, like he doesn't want to be PM, just more MP's.

Plain and simple..Harper's a geek. He's not a showman, never has been, never will be, no matter how much coaching he gets. He has gotten better, but...
However to equate akwardness with "dangerous" or slimy doesn't cut it.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Is Duceppe trying to somehow invlove the Tories in the Option Canada scandal?

Yes because both the Liberals and Conservatives sit on that committee.

[Cheese]

a snooze fest IMO...nothing more than political mumbo jumbo.
I think the Cons win because Harper didnt get into a cat fight. He remained calm and presented his case fairly clearly.
I hate Layton...BUT...his manouvres tonite could have gained him some seats. He made a few good points and I am worried that noone called him out on the fact the NDPs love to raise taxes for their promises.
Martin was running scared the entire show..he really does look like he needs a long vacation. I think hes done like dinner and as long as the Cons dont stick a foot in their mouths during the next two weeks we will see a Con majority.

[Footscray]

It will be interesting to see again how opinion of calgary folk compares to the national opinion on the debate. Personally thought that Martin imploding is extremely overstated. I saw Harper getting hammered on being too alike the american mainstream - taking alot of flak from everyone now that he is in the lead, Layton in a trap defence hoping to hold his percentage of the popular vote, Martin getting negative and seeming nervous and Duceppe letting his emotions take over at times and acting unprofessionally. I think the partisan crowd will always see what they want to as repeatedly evidenced here.

[FurnaceFace]

It's just the feeling I get from his smirks and grins. Really just my opinion so it cuts it with me.

Good info on Option Canada on Newsworld. Money earmarked for bilingualism went to help the No side and they spent more than the Oui side could. Dude who wrote the book on it has a bunch on cancelled cheques he found near a dumpster which alleged proof. My guess is Duceppe hits The Tories with the same brush because they were on the same side during the vote.

[WCE]

Originally Posted by fotze

Do you ever find it hyprocritical that people whine and moan about the price of gas, when if the government was to tax them further, it would make it worse.

I would be for giving incentives to companies to develop those alternatives energy methods but opposed to the government taking it and wasting it. If they can make it worthwhile to develop those methods then business will take it and run with it. Also the high price of gas/oil is probably the best incentive to what you are asking.

What do you percieve is the special treatment oil companies that others do not i.e. such as fertilizer, loggging and other harmful to the environment industries.

Ha, hey fotze I know where you are coming from my friend. I knew full well that when I made that post I would stir the pot a bit as I am posting as a bleeding-heart-socialist-liberal fellar in the heart of oil country.

I would be for giving incentives to companies to develop those alternatives energy methods but opposed to the government taking it and wasting it. If they can make it worthwhile to develop those methods then business will take it and run with it. Also the high price of gas/oil is probably the best incentive to what you are asking.

Yes, I agree full well with you that it needs to be something that can work. But I think it would be like anything else, and it would have to be an investment like education where the payoff might not be immediate. All I am asking for is for someone to pipe up and say that isn't right that we aren't doing enough to protect the environment and develop less harmful means of generating energy and fueling our cars.

The high price of gas you would think would be a road block, but we live in a very affluent society. I don't think many of us realize just how materialistic our culture has become.

Our lifestyles move along a wants vs needs paradigm...The pendalum has swung too far the other way, and IMO as long as the Liberals or Tories are in power their friends in the big business will keep lobbying to keep it that way.


What do you percieve is the special treatment oil companies that others do not i.e. such as fertilizer, loggging and other harmful to the environment industries.

Fair enough. I was using oil as an example, but it can be extended to those as well. Lots of problems, I agree.

Any big business that has the government's has the potential for bad news...Money talks, and you know the rest.

[Savvy27]

I really like this moderator. He asks interesting questions and tries to keep the hot topics going for a little while.

To be honest I think that all of the candidates had their good and bad moments.

Layton started out well and even avoided ending every topic with a cliched NDP plug. Towards the end he started to fall back into that role where he just chirps at everyone.

Best shot: Pointing out to Harper that the GST cut would result in a billion dollars less in savings for the lowest income earners.

Duceppe was alright with me up until they started talking about unity. He's pretty much full of crap (like all separatists). He is truly talented at debating and may be a decent leader if he had something worthwhile to stand for.

Best shot: Reminding Canadians about $48 Billion (!) being cut from Unemployment Insurance by the Liberals.

Harper had a weaker overall debate than last time but he still had some strong moments. I'm surprised that nobody has noticed Harper ducking out of questions and failing to refute that he told a conservative group in the US that they represented what Canada should be like. That startled me.

Best shot: I can't remember any huge ones. He got a decent shot at Martin by mentioning that he avoided paying Canadian taxes during his business years. I'm not a Harper fan at all but there were a few topics that he came off as a capable leader and it did sound as if the Conservative platform would cover the issues.

Martin is almost painful to watch debate unless he is passionate about a topic. He seemed better prepared this time around but I would imagine that all the talk about scandals hurt the Liberals yet again and he didn't really have anything convincing to say that will make people believe that there will not be any more scandal from the Liberals.

Best shot: Easily the shot about Harper saying a conservative group in the US was an 'inspiration' and the Canada was a 'northern european welfare state'.

Overall I enjoyed that debate much more than the first one. Which makes sense since I'm sure that all the leaders got some pointers. Also they must all be desperate for votes because they actually spent some time talking about university students!!

[duncan]

perhaps the bloc was involved, because they hold 54 seats, and the Green have.......none. The Bloc are major players, not in english Canada, but at least in Quebec, and their seats represent votes once parliament is created

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by WCE

I want more green friendly policies...I want a government that doesn't bend over because they have buddies in the oil or car businesses.

I want my money to go to hyrbrid or battery power car technology. How about making it less expensive to buy healthy food? Wind power technology? Green jobs? Medicare? Crushing tuition costs?

I think you might be surprised that many folk in Alberta DO want to find fruit in the green power alternatives. Conservatives included.

For example, you do realize that in Calgary, our LRT system is completely powered by wind power generated in the Southern part of our province?

I have spent countless hours pondering how to design and implement localized power generation here in Calgary. Having Conservative values does not mean that I do not see the merit in going green. But for any entrepreneur, without receiving government grants, it must be fiscally prudent. And I also must admit, that project is not a good fit within my experience and background... but the thought is ALWAYS in my mind.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by WCE

I want more green friendly policies...I want a government that doesn't bend over because they have buddies in the oil or car businesses.

You prefer a party that bends over to the unions?

I agree with Shawnski. The NDP are a fringe party that will never govern, nor should they ever govern. We've seen way to many times what happens to provinces that stick themselves with the NDP. BC is only now finally emerging from the hole the NDP put them in.

[WCE]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

I think you might be surprised that many folk in Alberta DO want to find fruit in the green power alternatives. Conservatives included.

For example, you do realize that in Calgary, our LRT system is completely powered by wind power generated in the Southern part of our province?

I have spent countless hours pondering how to design and implement localized power generation here in Calgary. Having Conservative values does not mean that I do not see the merit in going green. But for any entrepreneur, without receiving government grants, it must be fiscally prudent. And I also must admit, that project is not a good fit within my experience and background... but the thought is ALWAYS in my mind.

Glad to hear that Shawnski.

I know about the LRT, and I also recall something (I live in B.C. so this is going off of newswire memory, so please correct me if I am wrong) to the tune of Klein promising that at least 1/4 of energy used to power Government buildings would be purchased from companies using renewable resources.

I realize that it is on the minds of other people, geography notwithstanding. I don't think I am smarter than the average joe from Alberta. I know that many share the viewpoint that going green is the optimaly move into the future, and having conservative values doesn't mean that you can't be behind that wave length...

But I don't think that the Conservative Party is a party that will move along that front. You can't necessarily equate the values of a party's supporters with the actual actions a party in power takes.

I understand as well that for entrepreneurs these things wont happen without support. My position is, why the hell aren't we funding them with support? Why aren't we using that money to fund green energy initiatives? What about healthy food programs so our medicare system wasn't so overloaded with avoidable problems/diseases caused byobesity? As a citizen I am much more interested in my money going to grants for this kind of work rather than a tax cut that is going to do sweet nothing for the average guy and line a couple more billion in the pockets of the wealthiest group of Canadians.