2024-25 Huberdeau - new and improved?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

He's getting these points on a PDO heater. He's shooting 33%.

He's honestly been very lucky to get the meager points he does have.

I honestly was hoping for a decent bounce back year for the guy. But he just does not have it. With either the eye test nor the possession stats.

I was quoting last season as a total.

He was on a full season PDO heater?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I was quoting last season as a total.

He was on a full season PDO heater?

Ah, I thought you meant his projected scoring. Sorry.

Last year was worse, he had even better zone starts at 5v5 (the absolute easiest on the team, with the highest minutes), and the 8th best expected goals.

He does very little with what he is given.

Blake Coleman outscored him 5v5 with with the ice time, started twice as much in the defensive zone and played harder competition.

Give his icetime and PP slot to Coleman and the team is farther ahead, this year and last.

Coleman, a career 2/3rd liner outscored him in every facet of the game, even Assists/60. Which is wild considering Huberdeau is some sort of elite passer.

Hell look at his PP stats and possession last season, Huberdeau was the 9th best player on the PP last year at helping produce goals. He is one of the biggest problems on that power play.

This year, with the most power play time on the entire team, he is the 6th best player in generating goals. The powerplay generates more expected goals with him off the ice, than on. Not by much, but honestly, who cares. He should be killing it on the PP, not treading water.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Ah, I thought you meant his projected scoring. Sorry.

Last year was worse, he had even better zone starts at 5v5 (the absolute easiest on the team, with the highest minutes), and the 8th best expected goals.

He does very little with what he is given.

Blake Coleman outscored him 5v5 with with the ice time, started twice as much in the defensive zone and played harder competition.

Give his icetime and PP slot to Coleman and the team is farther ahead, this year and last.

Coleman, a career 2/3rd liner outscored him in every facet of the game, even Assists/60. Which is wild considering Huberdeau is some sort of elite passer.

Hell look at his PP stats and possession last season, Huberdeau was the 9th best player on the PP last year at helping produce goals. He is one of the biggest problems on that power play.

This year, with the most power play time on the entire team, he is the 6th best player in generating goals. The powerplay generates more expected goals with him off the ice, than on. Not by much, but honestly, who cares. He should be killing it on the PP, not treading water.

I'm just answering to your statements.

You called him a third liner and I said he's upper 2nd liner in all situations.

You suggested five on five he's a third liner and I supported he's the middle of the second line.

All I've ever said is pump the breaks on labeling him something worse than he is.

[CroFlames]

An OK NHLer who is just going through the motions.

10.5 million to put up 50-60 points. Guess it helps us get to the salary floor, so there's that.

Makes me beer taste less refreshing and the pocket dawgs less appealing when I know that money contributes to his bloated salary.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I have given up on him ever returning to even a PPG player. I hope he does, and I don't think it is an effort issue, so I can't hate him. That contract is just putrid, however, and it makes me just want the Flames to get rid of Kadri's deal ASAP because every single dollar WILL count sooner than some people realize, and I would rather only have 10.5M in dead cap (relatively dead cap - how much of the 10.5 Huberdeau is worth is arguable), rather than 13-17.5 with Kadri. Kadri is doing really well - hat's off to him - but with his age, those wheels will certainly fall off during this deal. The Flames can't afford to come out of this rebuild with too much dead cap on the books. You don't want to end up with another Tkachuk-type of bridge deal on a burgeoning superstar in 'trying to keep the gang together' (though I think Conroy would be forced to keep the band together, rather than decide to).


I would love for the Flames to find a way to get rid of Huberdeau's deal before then. With that being said, I do generally like him. His effort level is something that I can't criticize, and he does not hide or deflect the situation. Aside from the relatively pedestrian offence (especially considering his contract), he does do a few things well that somehow flies under the radar. I like how he plays with some jam and anger at times, and he is sneaky strong like Lindholm was - but probably even stronger.


I would love to see him continue developing his game and turning into a Mark Stone-Light type of player. Just be a player that is hard to play against and is very strong in all zones, even if he doesn't put up the offence. At least that will help the team. He seems to have the right attitude at least. I am convinced that Buffalo decided to buy-out Skinner probably because of an attitude. Aside from the offence to dollar ratio, there is nothing I can criticize Huberdeau for. The business side of me wants to get rid of his deal at any opportunity, but I really don't hate him and find myself cheering for him often.

It’s an interesting point you raise on Kadri. I think it depends on when and how many of the Flames young players will be demanding big tickets between now his deal expires. Kadri’s got 4 years left, so really anyone who is not playing pro hockey today shouldn’t be an issue. They would be on entry level. That will include the ‘24 draft. The guys who’ll have an opportunity between now and then who could see big increases could be Wolf, Zary,, Coronato (maybe), Honzek (maybe), Brzrtewicz (maybe). Perhaps someone really blossoms, Morin, Cooley, others? Also, what about an Andersson extension? If there is one, I’d bet it’s in the $8-9M range. Too difficult to forecast. Too many unknowns.

I think Huberdeau is a sunk cost. I’d be absolutely floored if at some point the Flames are able to move him even if he were to bounce back to a 70 point/season pace. The past two seasons are surely to have scared off any team. Short of a Lucic for Neal type swap, Heberdeau’s a flame for the foreseeable future.

At this point I think the Flames will have to ride this out for as long as they can. I know people say his contract is ‘buyout proof’ but if we get down to 2-3 years remaining and his play drops and/or his off ice contributions start to work against the team, their hand may be forced. The Wild took a bite out of the sh*t sandwich, the Flames may have to at some point as well. That, or more preferred, a one way trip to Robidas Island might address the problem.

[Vinny01]

Huby is cooked the guy will never be close to the player the Flames thought they were getting and won’t come close to sniffing the contract value. It is what it is and it is going to be a long 7 years. It might make sense to eventually decide to eat 50% and get rid of him but that doesn’t make any sense in the short term where the team needs vets and needs to hit the cap floor

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I am, I am not sure what you are looking at though.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CGY/

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just answering to your statements.

You called him a third liner and I said he's upper 2nd liner in all situations.

You suggested five on five he's a third liner and I supported he's the middle of the second line.

All I've ever said is pump the breaks on labeling him something worse than he is.

Huberdeau’s play will become a bigger issue once some of the Flames younger wingers start pushing for top 6 time. He’s not a fit for a checking line or an energy line so if you have 4 top 4 wingers, when does he become number 5? Right now Zary and Sharangovich are better players and seemingly
part of the solution here. When does 2 more players pass him?

Same with the PP. Right now he is being given PP1 time but I don’t see that lasting a long time.

I can’t buy GioforPM’s argument that he is playing better than all the other forwards. He is quickly regressing to a worse points pace than last year.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Noticed he was a part of a few dangerous rushes last night but the plays died when he held on to the puck too long and hesitated to make a play.

Need faster decision making from him and perhaps less pretty passes and just settling for the right pass that keeps the play alive. His linenates were feeling it and I felt like he disrupted their mojo. In those cases it's best to just keep things simple.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CGY/

https://moneypuck.com/stats.htm

Little more indepth look at this site, in my opinion.

Looking at hockey reference, I see the same ####ty numbers. Haha.

[Jason14h]

Useless , invisible , post apex, older, overpaid player .

Perfect for a team looking to lose like ours ! Only issue is we have him for eternity so eventually anyone who still doesn’t despise him will. Just wait .

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Huberdeau’s play will become a bigger issue once some of the Flames younger wingers start pushing for top 6 time. He’s not a fit for a checking line or an energy line so if you have 4 top 4 wingers, when does he become number 5? Right now Zary and Sharangovich are better players and seemingly
part of the solution here. When does 2 more players pass him?

Same with the PP. Right now he is being given PP1 time but I don’t see that lasting a long time.

I can’t buy GioforPM’s argument that he is playing better than all the other forwards. He is quickly regressing to a worse points pace than last year.

I said he has more points than any other forward.

He also better Corsi than all except three guys. He has fewer Ozone starts than Kadri, Honzek, Sharangovich and Kuzmenko. ES G/60 Huberdeau is behind Kirkland and Coronato. He has 3.8 versus 2.1 for Zary and 1.3 for Kadri.

Zary and Sharangovich are already top 6 and get more ATOI even strength (and about the same PP) so I don't see the logjam.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Huberdeau’s play will become a bigger issue once some of the Flames younger wingers start pushing for top 6 time. He’s not a fit for a checking line or an energy line so if you have 4 top 4 wingers, when does he become number 5? Right now Zary and Sharangovich are better players and seemingly
part of the solution here. When does 2 more players pass him?

Same with the PP. Right now he is being given PP1 time but I don’t see that lasting a long time.

I can’t buy GioforPM’s argument that he is playing better than all the other forwards. He is quickly regressing to a worse points pace than last year.

To be fair I would guess all player in team right now ,except Zary are doing “ worse points pace than last year”.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I said he has more points than any other forward.

He also better Corsi than all except three guys. He has fewer Ozone starts than Kadri, Honzek, Sharangovich and Kuzmenko. ES G/60 Huberdeau is behind Kirkland and Coronato. He has 3.8 versus 2.1 for Zary and 1.3 for Kadri.

Zary and Sharangovich are already top 6 and get more ATOI even strength (and about the same PP) so I don't see the logjam.

Moneypuck has him 7th among forwards for expected goals, the ES G/60 you are referencing is inflated due to his unsustainable PDO percentage which primarily came in 1 game. He was 8th in expected goals last year.

There is no logjam today. However it seems that Huberdeau is signed for 7 more years and he is unlikely to get any better. How long before 2 more of the young wingers pass him?

[FanIn80]

For me, it's not even about the 11M contract. I wouldn't even be happy paying him Kadri's salary. He's barely played at a 4-5M level since he's been here.

We gave him a contract to replace #13's () production, but he's barely even a replacement for Mangiapane.

I don't care if he's got a couple more points so far this year than he had at this time last year... he's being paid to be the catalyst for our entire offense. A guy that can take over a game and make everyone else better (his linemates, by way of his play, and everyone else because he's drawing all the big defensive assignments off of the other lines).

He hasn't shown for one single second here that he's the guy we're paying him to be. I feel terrible for the guy, because he genuinely seems like he wants to be that guy for us... he just isn't. He wasn't even that guy in Florida, so it's almost all on Tree for paying him that much in the first place.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Not good enough

They traded for a guy who was among league leaders multiple years running and paid him to do that

And team him up with a bunch of stone hands plugs. You forgot that part.

Wayne Gretzky would get 50 points playing with this group of forwards.

It’s like having 4 third lines.

[Goriders]

He is what he is at this point. I don’t think he’s miraculously going to change. He is trying harder this year which is good to see. I have come to terms with it. If he does elevate his performance level it’s gravy in my mind.

[Yanda]

Still disapointing, but at least he seems to have a better attitude to start the season. The only thing worse than paying him to be a 50 point player would be him being an issue in the dressing room on top of that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Goriders

And team him up with a bunch of stone hands plugs. You forgot that part.

Wayne Gretzky would get 50 points playing with this group of forwards.

It’s like having 4 third lines.

No I didn’t forget anything.

In 21-22 he was mainly with Bennett and Duclair. Good players but not superstars. Between that and PP1, he put up 115 pts.

In 22-23 he was with Kadri (who was playing at 100 pt pace with the Avs the year prior) about 50 percent of the time and Backlund (usually good for 50 pts playing with anyone and not on PP1) and about a third of the time, plus they tried Lindholm-Toffoli-Huberdeau about 15 percent of his ice time. Lindholm had 82 points the year prior.

Not plugs

All of Toffoli, Lindholm, Kadri and Backlund outscored Huberdeau that season

The style the Flames play doesn’t particularly suit his game, but he had very good centres 100 percent of the time, and a mix on the other wing of Coleman, Mangiapane, Toffoli, Pelletier and Lucic (no dispute that Pelletier was green and Lucic in particular was not good)

Let’s not pretend Huberdeau was played with Mark Jankiwski and late stage Troy Brouwer

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Goriders

And team him up with a bunch of stone hands plugs. You forgot that part.

Wayne Gretzky would get 50 points playing with this group of forwards.

It’s like having 4 third lines.

He had Lindholm and Kadri. Legit top 6 players.

It’s lacking but it’s not nothing