Generational standards of living

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Things today might be worse for straight white males in North America than they were in the 60s and 70s, but they're almost for sure better for everyone else.

Its not worse for them, they still have all their advantages. Others are starting to or have gotten them.
Having equals doesnt diminish what they have, other than it doesnt feel like an advantage to them anymore.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

The elephant in the room is housing. Even with improvements in technology making for an easier and longer life, it's tough to consider yourself better than someone that could easily afford a home, while you have no chance.

I feel for the younger generations, including my daughter, who will inherit and even worse housing crisis combined with AI impacting career opportunities, all while our leaders increasingly ignore these problems.

If you didn’t have a pet elephant you wouldn’t need to have such a big house.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

How many university educated couples today even want to start raising kids at 25?

I agree with your observations. But enjoying 15+ years of child-free adulthood before starting a family vs 5 years is a pretty big green check in the Pro column for younger generations. I’m not anywhere close to financially secure as my parents were at my age, but I had way more fun in my 20s than they did.

The flip side is that they would then start to empty the nest in their mid 40s, freeing them up to enjoy their 50s/60s unencumbered while at the peak of their earnings/resources.

Having my kids at 34 and 37 I may not empty the nest until I'm over 60. And if my kids wait as long to start a family as I do I'll be in my 70s by the time I can hopefully still help them as a grandparent. So they'll be as tired as I am now, and I'll be even more tired than my Dad is!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

The night you were conceived?

Seems like it would have been invented closer to breakfast or lunch.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The flip side is that they would then start to empty the nest in their mid 40s, freeing them up to enjoy their 50s/60s unencumbered while at the peak of their earnings/resources.

Having my kids at 34 and 37 I may not empty the nest until I'm over 60. And if my kids wait as long to start a family as I do I'll be in my 70s by the time I can hopefully still help them as a grandparent. So they'll be as tired as I am now, and I'll be even more tired than my Dad is!

The other thing is...with the cost of housing, those kids are going to be living with you for longer.

A lot longer.

I had to go over this...living at home into your mid-20s? It happens. Because living expenses are outrageous.

[gallione11]

Wages have definitely not kept up with inflation. I looked at an inflation calculator of when my dad had to "start over" per se after a divorce (1996) and what he was making at the time. I make about twice now what he did at the time, and yet, adjusted for inflation, it's about the same in buying power. That's fairly depressing.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Slava

Who’s the goof here?

Definitely you, because you're still looking at it relative to me. You take a twenty-something starting their career and chances are their parents are Gen Xers and grandparents are Boomers. "Elder Millennials" are now in their 40s.

You're what, 47? I hate to break this to you but you're ####ing old, and there are already a couple generations of adults after you.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Seems like it would have been invented closer to breakfast or lunch.

I’ll ask your mom.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by gallione11

Wages have definitely not kept up with inflation. I looked at an inflation calculator of when my dad had to "start over" per se after a divorce (1996) and what he was making at the time. I make about twice now what he did at the time, and yet, adjusted for inflation, it's about the same in buying power. That's fairly depressing.

Thats a sobering look.
Also consider what people spend money on now.
Back in the 70s-80s my parents didnt pay for cell phones, streaming services, more than one car, the entire family going to a restaurant together other than for a kids birthday, brands didnt matter for clothes or runners, multiple vacations a year didnt exist (not for us at least) Thats just a short list, Im sure theres a myriad of other things that can be listed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Technological advances will always ensure that by some objective standards, life is always getting better. Medical advances, improved consumer goods, etc. will always make things better in a sense. But in broader terms, when I look at my parents' trajectory, it's pretty clear to me that there's a significant difference between then and now.

They were born in the mid-1950s to working class families and their lives basically went like:

-graduate university at 22 with almost no student debt (despite their families not really being able to contribute much) and walk into solid careers upon graduation

-buy a house at 23 which cost about $210K in today's dollars. Yes, rates were higher, but even at peak rates their mortgage payment would have been about $2K in today's dollars. And yeah, it was a relatively modest house, but today that exact same house is worth well over $1M and would require a mortgage payment of about $5K.

-have kids starting at 25

-upgrade their house a couple of times in their 30s and 50s to their current 5,000 square foot ocean-view house.

-retire in their mid-to-late-50s with very generous pensions

-buy a vacation house in California in their mid-50s and spend 1/3rd of the year there during their (long) retirement.

Is that doable for someone coming out of high school now with similar effort and aptitude? Not remotely. Yeah, if you're a high enough earner, but my parents had normal jobs. Their trick was generally living modestly in their 20s -> 40s and saving money, but housing has become so expensive, that you simply can't pull that off through saving.

Nobody can afford to live in Del Boca Vista anymore and there arent any vacancies in Tuscany.

[timun]

Originally Posted by gallione11

Wages have definitely not kept up with inflation. I looked at an inflation calculator of when my dad had to "start over" per se after a divorce (1996) and what he was making at the time. I make about twice now what he did at the time, and yet, adjusted for inflation, it's about the same in buying power. That's fairly depressing.

Before the Covid pandemic my sister was making slightly less money, in nominal 2019 dollars, than my mother was making in 1996, in 1996 dollars. Not even adjusting for inflation. Adjust for inflation and it was about 35% less.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Thats a sobering look.
Also consider what people spend money on now.
Back in the 70s-80s my parents didnt pay for cell phones, streaming services, more than one car, the entire family going to a restaurant together other than for a kids birthday, brands didnt matter for clothes or runners, multiple vacations a year didnt exist (not for us at least) Thats just a short list, Im sure theres a myriad of other things that can be listed.

Hell...when I was a kid my parents didnt even pay for Cable!

"Do we get the News? Good enough!"

We didnt go out to restaurants. Yeah we had two cars, but they both sucked.

Its your birthday? Your friends can come over and play in the backyard.

[puffnstuff]

Your parents didnt have to spend money on spices either

[Slava]

Originally Posted by timun

Definitely you, because you're still looking at it relative to me. You take a twenty-something starting their career and chances are their parents are Gen Xers and grandparents are Boomers. "Elder Millennials" are now in their 40s.

You're what, 47? I hate to break this to you but you're ####ing old, and there are already a couple generations of adults after you.

You’re not breaking anything to me, haha. I go to the gym regularly and believe me I know I’m an old man. But funny thing is, you know I’m entirely right and you used the exact same time frame, complete with the same generations.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Your parents didnt have to spend money on spices either

Ya know....I tell you guys one thing and ya just throw it in my face.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ya know....I tell you guys one thing and ya just throw it in my face.

Only if it’s bland

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Locke

The other thing is...with the cost of housing, those kids are going to be living with you for longer.

A lot longer.

I had to go over this...living at home into your mid-20s? It happens. Because living expenses are outrageous.

Yup. If my youngest leaves at 23 then I'll be 60. But that's over 20 years from now...who knows what the norm will be by then!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I’ll ask your mom.

Ask her what?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Your parents didnt have to spend money on spices either

Originally Posted by Locke

Ya know....I tell you guys one thing and ya just throw it in my face.

To be fair, salty and pepper was about as spicy as my parents went growing up

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hell...when I was a kid my parents didnt even pay for Cable!

"Do we get the News? Good enough!"

We didnt go out to restaurants. Yeah we had two cars, but they both sucked.

Its your birthday? Your friends can come over and play in the backyard.

Would you say that you had it worse or better than the people who find themselves in a similar situation today?