[News] Leafs place D John Klingberg on LTIR

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol who doesn't

Guys miss the entire season and just happen to be ready game one of the playoffs what luck!

Kind of like Connor Brown taking the rest of the year off to avoid the bonus overage?

You accuse everyone of everything.

[SuperMatt18]

How would the Leafs even be abusing LTIR here?

Klingberg has been terrible, do people thing that they are going to LTIR him all season only to bring him back in the playoffs after he hasn't played for 5 months. I'm sure that will make him a better player!

Also doubt Klingberg would agree to it...he's playing for a contract...he doesn't want to be sitting in the pressbox and probably not getting a contract that's not a PTO next season if he misses all year.

The playoff LTIR thing is an issue, but not every injury is some team trying to abuse it.

And really Tampa was smart to schedule Kucherov's surgery to have him miss the whole regular season, why not do that. It's still a risk to have your leading scorer miss the whole season and be a top seed for the playoffs. And also was pretty impressive for Kucherov to come back after not playing for 8 months and leading the playoffs in scoring. I would rather than than teams like the Flames throwing guys like Monahan and Tanev out there game after game with multiple injuries that require surgery because they are tough or something.

[GioforPM]

I keep hearing that a player has to agree to LTIR, but that's not stated anywhere in s. 50.10(d) of the CBA (the LTIR section) that I can see. Is it somewhere else?

EDIT: I suppose it's in the fitness to play section (17.7) but all that does is allow a player to question the decision of team doctors and get a second opinion (and then a third and binding independent opinion if those two opinions differ).

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And really Tampa was smart to schedule Kucherov's surgery to have him miss the whole regular season, why not do that.

It's the blatent dishonesty of it... he was "unable to play" the whole period that the team would have to account for his money against the Cap and then he's magically able to play (and play extremely well) the exact moment that they don't have to account for his money against the Cap? Not before game 80, 81, or 82? Riiiight.... how miraculous.

[Strange Brew]

^ Exactly this. Of course he was seriously injured most of the year. But not being medically cleared to play until between games 82 and 83? Which by pure coincidence is when the cap goes away?

[Enoch Root]

With a long term injury, there is obviously going to be some grey area, as to when a player is ready to return. Also, there is ready, and then there's ready. A player could be 80-90%, and not wanting to rush it, during the season, but then agree to play at 80% in the playoffs.

Regardless, the point remains that the rules are what they are, so teams aren't cheating, they are working within the rules. The solution is simple, have the cap apply to the playoffs - as many people have suggested, just make it so you can only dress $X amount per game.

[GioforPM]

The outrage on the Kucherov one is not so high with me. The Bolts knew he needed surgery and the rehab from it was somewhere like a season in length. So should they have it done right away and be short handed over the whole season (because they couldn’t use LTIR to fill the holes the absence caused). Or plan for his absence for the whole year and schedule the surgery accordingly.

As it turns out he was ready a couple weeks early. But should they be penalized for a faster than estimated recovery?

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The outrage on the Kucherov one is not so high with me. The Bolts knew he needed surgery and the rehab from it was somewhere like a season in length. So should they have it done right away and be short handed over the whole season (because they couldn’t use LTIR to fill the holes the absence caused). Or plan for his absence for the whole year and schedule the surgery accordingly.

As it turns out he was ready a couple weeks early. But should they be penalized for a faster than estimated recovery?

The purpose of LTIR is to allow teams to bring in replacement players when an injured player is unable to play, not to solve the cap problems they have created for themselves due to poor cap management, to make them able to outcompete other teams in trade negotiations (like the Golden Knights’ trade foe Eichel), or to allow teams to stack their rosters for the playoffs. If a player can’t return to the roster by the end of the regular season, they shouldn’t be eligible for the playoffs. There are always multiple players playing injured, so if you want to bring a player back and you’re up against the cap, you have to put one of them on IR, in which case they’re not eligible for the playoffs. You shouldn’t have the benefit of both the injured player and the replacement players in the playoffs.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Kind of like Connor Brown taking the rest of the year off to avoid the bonus overage?

You accuse everyone of everything.

You defend everything like it never happens

Sweet summer child...Stone just happened to be healthy for game one of the playoffs and played four rounds. Not game 82 of the regular season though.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

The purpose of LTIR is to allow teams to bring in replacement players when an injured player is unable to play, not to solve the cap problems they have created for themselves due to poor cap management, to make them able to outcompete other teams in trade negotiations (like the Golden Knights’ trade foe Eichel), or to allow teams to stack their rosters for the playoffs. If a player can’t return to the roster by the end of the regular season, they shouldn’t be eligible for the playoffs. There are always multiple players playing injured, so if you want to bring a player back and you’re up against the cap, you have to put one of them on IR, in which case they’re not eligible for the playoffs. You shouldn’t have the benefit of both the injured player and the replacement players in the playoffs.

What the rules are, and what you/we want the rules to be, are two different things. And until that changes, it isn't cheating.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

How would the Leafs even be abusing LTIR here?

Klingberg has been terrible, do people thing that they are going to LTIR him all season only to bring him back in the playoffs after he hasn't played for 5 months. I'm sure that will make him a better player!

Also doubt Klingberg would agree to it...he's playing for a contract...he doesn't want to be sitting in the pressbox and probably not getting a contract that's not a PTO next season if he misses all year.

The playoff LTIR thing is an issue, but not every injury is some team trying to abuse it.

And really Tampa was smart to schedule Kucherov's surgery to have him miss the whole regular season, why not do that. It's still a risk to have your leading scorer miss the whole season and be a top seed for the playoffs. And also was pretty impressive for Kucherov to come back after not playing for 8 months and leading the playoffs in scoring. I would rather than than teams like the Flames throwing guys like Monahan and Tanev out there game after game with multiple injuries that require surgery because they are tough or something.

I knew it was the Flames fault lol

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You defend everything like it never happens

Sweet summer child...Stone just happened to be healthy for game one of the playoffs and played four rounds. Not game 82 of the regular season though.

You're going to double down on the sweet summer child garbage? You are simply incapable of admitting when you're wrong. You deserve every bit of the angst you get on here.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

The purpose of LTIR is to allow teams to bring in replacement players when an injured player is unable to play, not to solve the cap problems they have created for themselves due to poor cap management, to make them able to outcompete other teams in trade negotiations (like the Golden Knights’ trade foe Eichel), or to allow teams to stack their rosters for the playoffs. If a player can’t return to the roster by the end of the regular season, they shouldn’t be eligible for the playoffs. There are always multiple players playing injured, so if you want to bring a player back and you’re up against the cap, you have to put one of them on IR, in which case they’re not eligible for the playoffs. You shouldn’t have the benefit of both the injured player and the replacement players in the playoffs.

Kucherov was heading to LTIR no matter what - his injury was legit. He was legit out for 90% of the season and could have played in maybe 5 games at the end. Who were they going to go out and get to replace him for 50% of the season, if the surgery was done in June?

[Reign of Fire]

Too many teams are starting to abuse this, and the NHL should look into this. Even if a team can exceed the cap during the playoffs, the roster they ice in the games in playoffs should be cap-compliant.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Kucherov was heading to LTIR no matter what - his injury was legit. He was legit out for 90% of the season and could have played in maybe 5 games at the end. Who were they going to go out and get to replace him for 50% of the season, if the surgery was done in June?

It sounds like you're presenting two scenarios.

Scenario 1: "Oh no, it's June and our best player needs surgery with an extended recovery process. We better get him in right away so we can get him back asap. We need our best player to help us get into the playoffs! I mean, we'll have to bring someone up from the farm in the meantime, but you know what, this is why we stock the cupboards! It's also why there's LTIR."

Scenario 2: "Oh no, it's June and our best player needs surgery with an extended recovery process. Hey let's stick him on a shelf until October and the do the surgery. That way, we can use his $9M in LTIR to sign a couple free agents! His recovery should wrap up right before the season ends, and then bam! No salary cap in the playoffs, baby!! Luckily for us, we're not in a small market with an owner who has to watch every dollar! Man! How good am I at winning Stanley Cups before the season even starts?!"


While both scenarios might be within the current rules, you're honestly going to sit here and try to tell everyone that the second scenario isn't just rich teams figuring out how to buy championships? That it's literally not against the "spirit" of the CBA (which, I might add, is an actual clause in the CBA).

[chummer]

nm

[jayswin]

The one poster nailed it - The only sure way to quick change on this issue is for the Calgary Flames to engage in some LTIR benefit. The second we started winning playoff rounds after a dubious injury timeline that gave us an extra star player or two the league would immediately hold an emergency meeting to end LTIR abuse, this instant!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The one poster nailed it - The only sure way to quick change on this issue is for the Calgary Flames to engage in some LTIR benefit. The second we started winning playoff rounds after a dubious injury timeline that gave us an extra star player or two the league would immediately hold an emergency meeting to end LTIR abuse, this instant!

You're supposing that the Calgary Flames will ever win a playoff round.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The one poster nailed it - The only sure way to quick change on this issue is for the Calgary Flames to engage in some LTIR benefit. The second we started winning playoff rounds after a dubious injury timeline that gave us an extra star player or two the league would immediately hold an emergency meeting to end LTIR abuse, this instant!

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You're supposing that the Calgary Flames will ever win a playoff round.

Yeah, I mean... let's be honest... The Flames would LTIR Huberdeau for the season and then use that money to sign another James Neal.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You're supposing that the Calgary Flames will ever win a playoff round.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yeah, I mean... let's be honest... The Flames would LTIR Huberdeau for the season and then use that money to sign another James Neal.

Fair on both accounts.