Canmore population to double? Legal battle?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But hey, Boomers need a weekend getaway, so it's all good. I don't really understand how there is so much support for second homes when so many can't afford a first.

Yeah, the notion that this new housing will be bought by teachers, waiters, house framers, young families, etc. is beyond naive. It all be vacation properties and million dollar homes for executives retiring from the rat race. It will do nothing to make housing more affordable for the non-rich in the Bow Valley.

[Locke]

I propose a simple solution to this issue.

We pave Canmore and put up a parking lot.

[Table 5]

If your goal is to make Canmore a cheaper place to live, you either look to reduce demand, or increase supply. It's a pretty little mountain town an hour away from a big city with an increasing population...so I don't see demand going anywhere but up. So more supply is the only choice (there and elsewhere in the Rockies). Maybe more second homes aren't the best path forward to do that, but it sure is better than no homes at all. Saying no to these developments means the existing stock gets even more expensive, cutting even more people out.

But yep, Canmore is definitely not what it used to be. And neither is Banff, Cochrane, Calgary or pretty much any place within 2 hours of it. It's progress, for better or worse.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by calumniate

You're ignoring the fact that this affects people that actually want to live lives in the community where you've made your purchase. Ever read about the empty housing in Vancouver that resulted in foreign ownership needing to have tenants or occupancy or be fined? Currently you're in the clear, while morally you're obviously questionable as you don't care about dogs, wolves, nature in general and shoot of bear bangers for fun. But if everyone pushes these limits too far you're going to see more legislation.

But why should I be concerned about how they want to live their lives in the community? They're not concerned about how I want to live my life there. To them a community is me being there seven days a week. Okay, well that's a them thing. Why should I have to cater to their view of what makes a community nice? For me, I like a community that is private and where people mind their own beezwax. I don't need to walk around doing finger guns and high-fiving everyone wherever I go. I like it chill and don't need a bunch of people up in my grill just we can say we have a community.

What about this...can I say I live in Canmore, but come to Calgary to work during the week? I do genuinely feel most at peace and at home in Canmore and Calgary to me now is the place I have to come to work and deal with real life. I know people who live in Calgary and Fort Mac. Week on/week off. Should I tell them they are hurting my feeling of community in Calgary? Do you think they might tell me to fk off if I did that?

Is every person who owns a vacation home acting in a morally questionable manner?

Should there be a cap on net worth for people? If not, you seem to be in favour of how people should be permitted to spend their money. That isn't problematic to you? I just don't see how that doesn't open a whole crazy can of worms.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Like I said in my first post, the place is ####ed. It's a lost cause. The town is generally run by morons(see the constant attempt to improve roads and intersections by making them worse). It's just a matter of who can actually see the trend that has happened, and doing more of the same will extend that trend, and, then it gets more ####ed. I've accepted it, it's just weird so many look at these long term trends and say "ya, but this time will be different if we do the same thing." Spoiler alert, it won't. Check back in in 20 years.

It’s my job to follow municipal politics, and I’ve never seen any community where numbers of residents don’t think their municipalities aren’t run by morons.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, the notion that this new housing will be bought by teachers, waiters, house framers, young families, etc. is beyond naive. It all be vacation properties and million dollar homes for executives retiring from the rat race. It will do nothing to make housing more affordable for the non-rich in the Bow Valley.

Okay, then let's build some affordable housing. Tiny homes could be cool. Pre-fabbed homes could happen relatively quickly. Bring that idea up with a Canmore resident and let me know what they say.

I know half a dozen Calgarians with second homes in Canmore. ALL of us are supportive and in favour of low-cost housing because we're not selfish gatekeepers.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

But why should I be concerned about how they want to live their lives in the community? They're not concerned about how I want to live my life there. To them a community is me being there seven days a week. Okay, well that's a them thing. Why should I have to cater to their view of what makes a community nice? For me, I like a community that is private and where people mind their own beezwax. I don't need to walk around doing finger guns and high-fiving everyone wherever I go. I like it chill and don't need a bunch of people up in my grill just we can say we have a community.

What about this...can I say I live in Canmore, but come to Calgary to work during the week? I do genuinely feel most at peace and at home in Canmore and Calgary to me now is the place I have to come to work and deal with real life. I know people who live in Calgary and Fort Mac. Week on/week off. Should I tell them they are hurting my feeling of community in Calgary? Do you think they might tell me to fk off if I did that?

Is every person who owns a vacation home acting in a morally questionable manner?

Should there be a cap on net worth for people? If not, you seem to be in favour of how people should be permitted to spend their money. That isn't problematic to you? I just don't see how that doesn't open a whole crazy can of worms.

This is sort of the thing.

As an aside, my wife and I went to visit some friends that have a trailer on a lake, and its a very, very tight-knit community.

I'll come to a BBQ every now and again, wave hello, have some drinks, but if I'm sitting on my porch listening to music or whatever that is not an invitation to come in.

I want to be left alone sometimes.

If you want to go hiking in the woods for whatever reason, do you have to take the whole neighbourhood with you?

Living in the mountains is almost by definition an attempt at solitude.

[blankall]

To be fair to Silver, he's also arguing against his own financial interests. For existing property owners, in a place with limited land, the best thing you can do from a financial point of view is to limit the amount of new land that gets opened up for building.

As for preserving the interests of the people living there. That ship may have sailed a while ago. You have to be very wealthy to live in Canmore. It is not a place where average generations of people are growing up, and their children are living in the area.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

It’s my job to follow municipal politics, and I’ve never seen any community where numbers of residents don’t think their municipalities aren’t run by morons.

In fairness, they usually are run by morons, though.

There's a reason for that. The pool of people interested in being in politics is incredibly small. It's a specific type that likes the "power" of politics, thinks they're the smartest guy in the room, enjoys public speaking, doesn't mind totally wacky hours and likes to glad hand. It's a wild combination of traits that not many people possess. As a result, it's common and expected you end up with a group of similar types of people that don't do a good job. All of those traits that steer somebody into politics have nothing to do with being skilled at running municipalities. Being qualified isn't one of the qualifications for being a politician.

First Lady is always my favourite example of that. She couldn't manage her own family or her own finances, but wanted to be a politician. What a fright, but a typical example.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Locke

This is sort of the thing.

As an aside, my wife and I went to visit some friends that have a trailer on a lake, and its a very, very tight-knit community.

I'll come to a BBQ every now and again, wave hello, have some drinks, but if I'm sitting on my porch listening to music or whatever that is not an invitation to come in.

I want to be left alone sometimes.

If you want to go hiking in the woods for whatever reason, do you have to take the whole neighbourhood with you?

Living in the mountains is almost by definition an attempt at solitude.

MacGregor lake, perchance? I spent a weekend there and it was fun, but man, it's non-stop randos just walking up with a beer and chatting to you. Not my scene at all. I have a close group of friends and family and totally don't want just any old warm body sitting on my deck with me.

In my area in Canmore we leave each other totally alone and it's the best. I know everyone's names around me and we chit chat, but we keep each other at arm's length because that's what we want.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If your goal is to make Canmore a cheaper place to live, you either look to reduce demand, or increase supply. It's a pretty little mountain town an hour away from a big city with an increasing population...so I don't see demand going anywhere but up. So more supply is the only choice (there and elsewhere in the Rockies). Maybe more second homes aren't the best path forward to do that, but it sure is better than no homes at all. Saying no to these developments means the existing stock gets even more expensive, cutting even more people out.

But yep, Canmore is definitely not what it used to be. And neither is Banff, Cochrane, Calgary or pretty much any place within 2 hours of it. It's progress, for better or worse.

That's assuming the rules of supply and demand should apply to housing. But in a place like Canmore, supply is limited(mountains, rivers, flooding) so you need regulations to maintain a balance. Restrictions on percent of unoccupied housing would help, and having developments actually pay for the entirety of increased costs, so it isn't downloaded onto existing residents would be a good idea, too.

Canmore Council approved a 12.5 per cent municipal tax increase in 2023, and said residents can expect a 5.5 per cent increase in 2024.

https://www.thecragandcanyon.ca/news...capital-budget

Does that sound like a well planned budgeting process? This has been happening for years. Is that fair to young families trying to stay in the valley?

It's kind of hilarious reading all these Calgarians trying to tell locals how they should manage their town. These aren't just my concerns, they are those of most long term residents.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

People who complain about second homes or cabins as a concept being a deprivation of someone having their first home just invariably sound to me like they're upset that things haven't worked out well enough for them in life that they get to be the sort of person who has a cabin. It just never sounds like anything but jealousy.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's assuming the rules of supply and demand should apply to housing. But in a place like Canmore, supply is limited(mountains, rivers, flooding) so you need regulations to maintain a balance. Restrictions on percent of unoccupied housing would help, and having developments actually pay for the entirety of increased costs, so it isn't downloaded onto existing residents would be a good idea, too.


https://www.thecragandcanyon.ca/news...capital-budget

Does that sound like a well planned budgeting process? This has been happening for years. Is that fair to young families trying to stay in the valley?

It's kind of hilarious reading all these Calgarians trying to tell locals how they should manage their town. These aren't just my concerns, they are those of most long term residents.

Let's get real here, there is the space to build more in Canmore. The supply is being created by people against development.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Sliver

In fairness, they usually are run by morons, though.

There's a reason for that. The pool of people interested in being in politics is incredibly small. It's a specific type that likes the "power" of politics, thinks they're the smartest guy in the room, enjoys public speaking, doesn't mind totally wacky hours and likes to glad hand. It's a wild combination of traits that not many people possess. As a result, it's common and expected you end up with a group of similar types of people that don't do a good job. All of those traits that steer somebody into politics have nothing to do with being skilled at running municipalities. Being qualified isn't one of the qualifications for being a politician.

First Lady is always my favourite example of that. She couldn't manage her own family or her own finances, but wanted to be a politician. What a fright, but a typical example.

I’ve always believed that municipal elections are more popularity contests than determinations of who is most qualified and best. I was an EO for a very long time and most people, when pressed, would say they could not do the job - for some of the reasons you mention. Don’t get me wrong: I love local government and there are many smart, well-intentioned people serving. Often then don’t deserve the criticism they have to endure. There are some goofs, too.

[Leondros]

This problem is only going to get worse for Canadians with our immigration policy. As new Canadians come to the country they are going to flock to areas that have high quality of life and lower costs of living. Alberta ticks a lot of those boxes and every town and city in the province is going to see affordability issues and supply issues.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Sliver

But why should I be concerned about how they want to live their lives in the community? They're not concerned about how I want to live my life there. To them a community is me being there seven days a week. Okay, well that's a them thing. Why should I have to cater to their view of what makes a community nice? For me, I like a community that is private and where people mind their own beezwax. I don't need to walk around doing finger guns and high-fiving everyone wherever I go. I like it chill and don't need a bunch of people up in my grill just we can say we have a community.

What about this...can I say I live in Canmore, but come to Calgary to work during the week? I do genuinely feel most at peace and at home in Canmore and Calgary to me now is the place I have to come to work and deal with real life. I know people who live in Calgary and Fort Mac. Week on/week off. Should I tell them they are hurting my feeling of community in Calgary? Do you think they might tell me to fk off if I did that?

Is every person who owns a vacation home acting in a morally questionable manner?

Should there be a cap on net worth for people? If not, you seem to be in favour of how people should be permitted to spend their money. That isn't problematic to you? I just don't see how that doesn't open a whole crazy can of worms.

I can't really say. All I'm saying is that Vancouver / BC took some pretty radical steps regarding foreign ownership. But you're a domestic owner and I'd say you're pretty safe, lol. Go shoot your bear bangers with gusto! 'Merica!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's assuming the rules of supply and demand should apply to housing. But in a place like Canmore, supply is limited(mountains, rivers, flooding) so you need regulations to maintain a balance. Restrictions on percent of unoccupied housing would help, and having developments actually pay for the entirety of increased costs, so it isn't downloaded onto existing residents would be a good idea, too.

https://www.thecragandcanyon.ca/news...capital-budget

Does that sound like a well planned budgeting process? This has been happening for years. Is that fair to young families trying to stay in the valley?

It's kind of hilarious reading all these Calgarians trying to tell locals how they should manage their town. These aren't just my concerns, they are those of most long term residents.

Okay, but it's the same problem as tax increases in, say, Marda Loop or somewhere like that for the guy that originally bought in 1963. Are we to feel bad that taxes are going up in a growing town? Like, it's kind of weird for people not to expect that. And they haven't noticed amenities like the rec centre and stuff? They think the upscale beauty of Canmore doesn't come with increasing costs? Again, go to Olds or Sundre. They're dumps. That's a normal town that doesn't have the money out of towners bring into Canmore.

But I can understand somebody having a difficult time paying increased taxes if they've lived there a long time. I hope there is some sort of deferral option.

My SIL lives in Vancouver. She bought when it was cheap and now her house is worth about a million dollars. She can barely put food on her table let alone pay her taxes. She's on some program where her tax liability is deferred with what essentially is a lien, I believe. When she eventually sells her house she will then pay her accrued tax liability with proceeds from the sale of the home. I really hope there is something like that for Canmore residents as I think it's a fair way to acknowledge the hardships one can face if they live in an area that has dramatically increased in value through no fault of their own.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by calumniate

I can't really say. All I'm saying is that Vancouver / BC took some pretty radical steps regarding foreign ownership. I'd say you're pretty safe though, lol. Go shoot your bear bangers with gusto! 'Merica!

Well I'm not a foreigner, for one, so I honestly don't know what tf you're talking about.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

MacGregor lake, perchance? I spent a weekend there and it was fun, but man, it's non-stop randos just walking up with a beer and chatting to you. Not my scene at all. I have a close group of friends and family and totally don't want just any old warm body sitting on my deck with me.

In my area in Canmore we leave each other totally alone and it's the best. I know everyone's names around me and we chit chat, but we keep each other at arm's length because that's what we want.

Indeed.

Fun place to visit, a weekend was fine. I have no idea how those people live.

And I mean that. Like genuinely, actually survive.

I have never eaten or drank more in a 48 period in my life. I thought I was going to die on the drive home.

Just walking back to your own place is like 3 BBQ stops, beer, cigars, cocktails...I didnt even want to look at booze for 2 weeks after a weekend there.

Do they spend Winter in Rehab prepping for next summer? Nope. Not my scene whatsoever.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well I'm not a foreigner, for one, so I honestly don't know what tf you're talking about.

Well Banff has residency requirements. I could see that happening in Canmore but not in the near Danielle Smith future