Do you support leaving the CPP and creating a new Alberta Pension Plan?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Are there really lots of Canadians in their 80s who have taken big loans against the value of their homes?

Maybe it’s a generational thing, but my parents and their cohort seem pretty careful about their money. Then again, they finished paying off their mortgages in their early 50s. That might not be the case with Canadians who are in their 60s now.

Oh, maybe I didn't phrase my thought right. I just mean that yes, some people will inherit a chunk of money when their parents pass, but that inheritance is spent already. It's not the 80 year old with a huge mortgage or whatever, it's their kids.

[Red Slinger]

I would love to hear from some of the people that support a APP and why.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I would love to hear from some of the people that support a APP and why.

I'm pretty sure the only place you're going to find those people is camped in the legislature building in Edmonton.

I am telling you, there is something about this that just really, really fails the 'smell test.'

It makes so little sense that I feel like its gotta be a cover or dodge for something else because this and a Provincial Police Force? I've not met a single person who wants this.

Literally nobody wants this and few to nobody thinks either is a good idea.

So this seems like some sort of cover for a hare-brained scam coming out of our Provincial Government.

Stop trying to make APP a thing. It should never be a thing.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm pretty sure the only place you're going to find those people is camped in the legislature building in Edmonton.

I am telling you, there is something about this that just really, really fails the 'smell test.'

It makes so little sense that I feel like its gotta be a cover or dodge for something else because this and a Provincial Police Force? I've not met a single person who wants this.

Literally nobody wants this and few to nobody thinks either is a good idea.

So this seems like some sort of cover for a hare-brained scam coming out of our Provincial Government.

Stop trying to make APP a thing. It should never be a thing.

Wasn’t there a video released during the leadership race where Danielle was musing about steps for Alberta separation? Separate police force, separate pension were two of the steps IIRC

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ah123

Wasn’t there a video released during the leadership race where Danielle was musing about steps for Alberta separation? Separate police force, separate pension were two of the steps IIRC

Well thats just exponentially dumber.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I would love to hear from some of the people that support a APP and why.

Hypothetically there are some potential benefits for people who have been max contributors to CPP and close to retirement because depending how the split goes they may get an additional pension, albeit a small one. But that’s about it.

Everything else is just empty promises at this point.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Hypothetically there are some potential benefits for people who have been max contributors to CPP and close to retirement because depending how the split goes they may get an additional pension, albeit a small one. But that’s about it.

Everything else is just empty promises at this point.

The bolded part is doing a lot of the heavy lifting in that first sentence.
I've amended the second sentence accordingly.

[SilverKast]

An APP is such a stupid idea. Why take something that's working well and try and reinvent the wheel? It's no wonder we Albertans come across as such a bunch of hodunk hillbillies to the rest of confederation.

And even if it were a good idea, which I 100% don't believe, I also wouldn't trust anyone in our government with such a critical part of the populations financial well being and trust. I don't trust that they have our well being or best interests at heart, rather quite the opposite.

[Monahammer]

We hate Quebec because they're everything we want to be!
-Current UCP policy

[GGG]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I voted no switch. But the people collecting now didn't pay their fair share. Every contribution year before the changes in the '90s someone is collecting on they underpaid.

Edited to add: that's why the argument that Alberta's population could age doesn't make any difference. It isn't that younger is necessarily better going forward. It's that the ratio of people paying their share plus a bit extra now to the people who didn't cover their share before the 90s changes is higher.

The "unfairness" in the system isn't geographic, it's generational.

I thought the system relied on modest population growth to support it at current rates. I might be wrong though but I thought demographic assumptions were included in the pricing of the plan.

[FurnaceFace]

It’s stupid. Smith can ‘t just say “we’re out” and tada, APP. This is nothing but chocolate for their MAGA convoy base. Problem is the chocolate is exlax.

[Wormius]

It doesn’t appear like any of the pro-APP voters are speaking up for themselves. Do they not need the CPP and don’t care what happens to their fellow Albertans, or are they leaving Alberta after retirement and don’t care what happens in the aftermath?

[flamesfever]

I think in order to go along with the APP one has to convince oneself that our oil and gas industry is here to stay, and a large portion of the Alberta population have been conditioned to think otherwise.

Secondly, one has to convince oneself that Alberta will always have control over our resources, and what has gone on under the Federal Liberals would convince many otherwise.

Thirdly, one has to convince oneself that we have enough talent and integrity in the people running our government to invest wisely, and the opposition have managed to cast enough doubt on that.

Personally, I think Alberta's oil and gas industry is here to stay in the long run. I think if we don't show strong leadership and stand up for ourselves, we will lose control of our resources. Finally, I think we do have the talent and integrity in our government to manage our own APP. So if it is ever decided that we go ahead with the APP, I would not be too upset.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think in order to go along with the APP one has to convince oneself that our oil and gas industry is here to stay, and a large portion of the Alberta population have been conditioned to think otherwise.

Secondly, one has to convince oneself that Alberta will always have control over our resources, and what has gone on under the Federal Liberals would convince many otherwise.

Thirdly, one has to convince oneself that we have enough talent and integrity in the people running our government to invest wisely, and the opposition have managed to cast enough doubt on that.

Personally, I think Alberta's oil and gas industry is here to stay in the long run. I think if we don't show strong leadership and stand up for ourselves, we will lose control of our resources. Finally, I think we do have the talent and integrity in our government to manage our own APP. So if it is ever decided that we go ahead with the APP, I would not be too upset.

Hahahahaha we’re ####ing doomed

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think in order to go along with the APP one has to convince oneself that our oil and gas industry is here to stay, and a large portion of the Alberta population have been conditioned to think otherwise.

Secondly, one has to convince oneself that Alberta will always have control over our resources, and what has gone on under the Federal Liberals would convince many otherwise.

Thirdly, one has to convince oneself that we have enough talent and integrity in the people running our government to invest wisely, and the opposition have managed to cast enough doubt on that.

Personally, I think Alberta's oil and gas industry is here to stay in the long run. I think if we don't show strong leadership and stand up for ourselves, we will lose control of our resources. Finally, I think we do have the talent and integrity in our government to manage our own APP. So if it is ever decided that we go ahead with the APP, I would not be too upset.

The hubris here is astounding.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think in order to go along with the APP one has to convince oneself that our oil and gas industry is here to stay, and a large portion of the Alberta population have been conditioned to think otherwise.

Secondly, one has to convince oneself that Alberta will always have control over our resources, and what has gone on under the Federal Liberals would convince many otherwise.

Thirdly, one has to convince oneself that we have enough talent and integrity in the people running our government to invest wisely, and the opposition have managed to cast enough doubt on that.

Personally, I think Alberta's oil and gas industry is here to stay in the long run. I think if we don't show strong leadership and stand up for ourselves, we will lose control of our resources. Finally, I think we do have the talent and integrity in our government to manage our own APP. So if it is ever decided that we go ahead with the APP, I would not be too upset.

Congrats on the most delusional statement ever made on CP(and that includes trade threads). It's almost like you don't have a clue who is actually in government. It's one thing to know nothing about our leaders and say this, but you post in this thread, so you should be fully aware of the IQ of our premier, the incompetence of our series of justice ministers and their failings in issues relating to justice, and the rest of the clown show, yet, what, you think they are competent, and have INTEGRITY? Are you drunk this morning?

[PepsiFree]

The more completely you deny reality, the better the APP looks.

Your UCP.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think in order to go along with the APP one has to convince oneself that our oil and gas industry is here to stay, and a large portion of the Alberta population have been conditioned to think otherwise.

Secondly, one has to convince oneself that Alberta will always have control over our resources, and what has gone on under the Federal Liberals would convince many otherwise.

Thirdly, one has to convince oneself that we have enough talent and integrity in the people running our government to invest wisely, and the opposition have managed to cast enough doubt on that.

Personally, I think Alberta's oil and gas industry is here to stay in the long run. I think if we don't show strong leadership and stand up for ourselves, we will lose control of our resources. Finally, I think we do have the talent and integrity in our government to manage our own APP. So if it is ever decided that we go ahead with the APP, I would not be too upset.

Conservative govts now and in the past have never shown the ability to manage our money properly. Think back to the nearly $2-billion wiped from Alberta Heritage fund partly due to AIMCo investing strategy back in 2020.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...gs-trust-fund/

In addition, i'm retired like yourself and don't want Smith and her minions messing with my CPP!

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think in order to go along with the APP one has to convince oneself that our oil and gas industry is here to stay, and a large portion of the Alberta population have been conditioned to think otherwise.

Secondly, one has to convince oneself that Alberta will always have control over our resources, and what has gone on under the Federal Liberals would convince many otherwise.

Thirdly, one has to convince oneself that we have enough talent and integrity in the people running our government to invest wisely, and the opposition have managed to cast enough doubt on that.

Personally, I think Alberta's oil and gas industry is here to stay in the long run. I think if we don't show strong leadership and stand up for ourselves, we will lose control of our resources. Finally, I think we do have the talent and integrity in our government to manage our own APP. So if it is ever decided that we go ahead with the APP, I would not be too upset.

Thanks for answering the question asked earlier by someone looking for a supporter to explain why. I don’t agree with you, that’s for sure and you are already getting some negative responses.

A couple of things to consider. I do think the industry is here for probably another 40-50 years but not the way we know it perhaps. It’s maturing and will slowly become less a driver of the government revenue stream. I’m in the industry, it’s not government conditioning me for that view, it’s every dataset we have showing different but similar versions of that. That timeframe is only another generation and with pensions you want to be looking longer than that.

The last thing you want is for government to actually be responsible for the investment decisions of your pension. You want an independent body doing unbiased and isolated from politics. You know who is doing a great job of that - the CPP.

I will also offer that this is the test case to try even more of this- to create their firewall. This will create unnecessary uncertainty in Alberta, which never helps with private sector investment decisions.

[Red Slinger]

Thanks for having the courage to offer an alternate opinion.

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think in order to go along with the APP one has to convince oneself that our oil and gas industry is here to stay,

What do you mean 'here to stay'? How long does that constitute? Even if you assume the same rate of production as today for the next 40 years, that means adults today (20 somethings) will be at retirement age when it runs out. But that is making a lot of assumptions like the world won't continue to slowly phase out carbon-heavy energy for cleaner energy and that the Alberta oil and gas won't get more and more expensive to mine. It's already among the least economical oil in the world due to the cost of extraction, and the extraction gets more difficult every year.

... and a large portion of the Alberta population have been conditioned to think otherwise.

It's true that oil consumption continues to go up around the world, so it's hard to say when the tipping point will be reached. But as greener energy becomes more viable and economical, surely you can see that the world will have to transition from a finite, dwindling resource to something more sustainable, right?

Secondly, one has to convince oneself that Alberta will always have control over our resources, and what has gone on under the Federal Liberals would convince many otherwise.

Alberta does have control over resources and the Federal Liberals are not going to change that. If you're referring to pipelines, that's a transport issue that crosses jurisdictions and it's not the Federal government that blocked it but other regional (Quebec, BC) levels of government. If it's just the Federal Liberals who are responsible for this why didn't we get pipelines to tidewater under Harper? Anyway, I think you're needlessly inserting politics and your political bias here which just obfuscates from the conversation.

Finally, I think we do have the talent and integrity in our government to manage our own APP.

I'm genuinely curious why you think so. What has this government done that has inspired so much confidence?