The Flames Are Not Rebuilding: A Safe Space to Vent

[2ArmBands]

This team actually has some pretty decent pieces at every position. For the players that want out there is probably a potential hockey trade that’s keeps this team competitive. Not saying it’s right or wrong but there’s enough to work with to ice a pretty strong team for the next 2-3 years.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I’d call it a half measure. Draft picks and prospects are rebuilding.

Honestly, other than an expansion team, are there any successful teams right now that have traded their way there instead of using high draft picks from a few rebuilding years? Other than the Rangers who get gifted players like Panarin and Fox, and even then they drafted twice in the top 2

Florida?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

EDIT: Realize you weren't speaking about a first being available, just commenting on the overall market for him...

I think it's doubtful a first was in the cards for him. For 2023 picks I think it would have had to been a late pick, from a team that needed/wanted him and had the cap space. NJD doesn't have a 2023 first. And I don't see him being a fit for other teams with late 1sts.

So then you are looking at a 2024 1st, and I don't think he's the type of player the teams will trade a pick with unknown value for.

When the Flames traded a 1st at the deadline for him, it was knowing it would be a late one. So yes - maybe you could have waited and gotten that at the deadline IF he had stayed healthy and IF he had produced still. Lots of risks there.

But right now - I don't think a first was coming for him.

I bet you could have gotten a 2nd but then not the player.

Ya I tend to agree, I will hold my judgement for the possible Hanifin/Lindholm trades. I don’t think the return on Toffoli tells us anything either way.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Florida?

Florida 100% used high picks.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I’d call it a half measure. Draft picks and prospects are rebuilding.

Honestly, other than an expansion team, are there any successful teams right now that have traded their way there instead of using high draft picks from a few rebuilding years? Other than the Rangers who get gifted players like Panarin and Fox, and even then they drafted twice in the top 2

Well, TB had high draft picks. But they were from 08 and 09 and they won the cup in 2020. I doubt that 11 years is the plan for a rebuild to win a cup with draft picks.

Similarly, the Blues only had Pietrangelo as a high draft pick but he was a #4 from 2008 and they won in 2019.

[traptor]

I have a hard time believing you couldn't get a single late 1st (2023 or 2024) for Toffoli with retention, but we'll never know.

Maybe they did have a late 1st offer but chose sharangovich + 3rd instead.

Seems like the current goal is a get younger retool not a rebuild. (Although maybe this changes to full rebuild if lindy wants out)

I think a retool younger but stay competitive path is a fools errand and will keep us in the middle. We don't have the elite pieces a team needs to build around. Only time will tell though.

[CDN]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Unless your name is Murray Edwards, you have no vote. So you - like I - live with whatever they do. Blowing yourself up over it doesn't make any sense at all.

Am I doing it right?

This doesn't help my season ticket holder situation lol

[blender]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Disagree. If the Toffoli trade would have come with a 1st, reaction would be way better.

By far. It actually is the difference in strategic direction, to be honest. Even if it is slight.

Do you actually believe they were offered a first but took this deal instead?

[CDN]

Originally Posted by blender

Do you actually believe they were offered a first but took this deal instead?

No but I feel like someone would have with 50% retained. I'm just thinking flames still want to contend which is why they aren't retaining salary

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by blender

Do you actually believe they were offered a first but took this deal instead?

Do you think this is the actual best they could have gotten for Toffoli?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CDN

No but I feel like someone would have with 50% retained. I'm just thinking flames still want to contend which is why they aren't retaining salary

Saving $2m for one year isn’t the difference between this and a first.

Flyers retained $3.5m on a guy who is the same age and put up just 20 less points. They got a 6th… total.

[CDN]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Saving $2m for one year isn’t the difference between this and a first.

Flyers retained $3.5m on a guy who is the same age and put up just 20 less points. They got a 6th… total.

You're comparing a top liner for a bum. 2m for a former top line player and 80 points certainly Is worth a 1st to a contending team... you don't know what other underlying motives Philly had to drop Hayes

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CDN

You're comparing a top liner for a bum. 2m for a former top line player and 80 points certainly Is worth a 1st to a contending team... you don't know what other underlying motives Philly had to drop Hayes

But you don’t know what Toffoli is worth to a contending team (which NJ is trying to be) so it seems like we’re even.

Toffoli isn’t an 80 point top liner. He’s scored more than 58 points once in his entire career, which was last year, at 31, where he was a top liner on a team that lot their top line RW. He was on the same line as Dube, is he a top liner? or does circumstance play a role?

[Username: Flames]

Disappointing trade, but I guess it could be worse. Hall and Hayes were traded for basically nothing, so at least the flames got something.

[Username: Flames]

Originally Posted by Username: Flames

Disappointing trade, but I guess it could be worse. Hall and Hayes were traded for basically nothing, so at least the flames got something.

Wrong thread...

Flames aren't rebuilding...which is also disappointing.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by CDN

You're comparing a top liner for a bum. 2m for a former top line player and 80 points certainly Is worth a 1st to a contending team... you don't know what other underlying motives Philly had to drop Hayes

Way better chance Toffoli is a 55-60pt guy next season. He won't be the main man on the pp, and I highly doubt he'll be on their top line.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CDN

You're comparing a top liner for a bum. 2m for a former top line player and 80 points certainly Is worth a 1st to a contending team... you don't know what other underlying motives Philly had to drop Hayes

Hayes was Philly’s second leading scorer and their 1C. So, I guess you could call him a top liner (and Toffoli was never a top line player before now).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CDN

You're comparing a top liner for a bum. 2m for a former top line player and 80 points certainly Is worth a 1st to a contending team... you don't know what other underlying motives Philly had to drop Hayes

80 points! He has been over 58 points one time in his career

[blender]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Do you think this is the actual best they could have gotten for Toffoli?

I'm not assuming anything.
I know this is what they wanted because they made the trade. They could have kept Toffoli until the deadline if they wanted.

It's fine to argue the merits of the deal if you want (although we know so little that it really is just speculation), but to steadfastly insist that there was a better return on offer is bizarre.

[memphusk]

Territory is rough right now also. Media is all over this team like a fly on ####. Nashville just ate what Tofffolin makes per season to get rid of Johanson. This market isn't great for sellers and it's showing. What is also showing is Montreal has obviously been given orders also.