What should it take to trade for 1st Overall?

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So if McDavid wanted out, would the Hawks be interested in him for their pick? IMO that's really the only obvious asset that is close to equal value IMO.

I think McDavid is the only one for one deal that would even be under consideration and even that deal would be far from a slam dunk.

If they had talked to McDavid's reps and had rock solid info that he would sign long term for them when he deal was done I think that is a deal that I would make because we have seen in Edmonton how much he can carry a team with nothing around him. If you are getting McDavid you have to think you will do a better job than Edmonton has in surrounding him with talent, otherwise it doesn't matter what you do with Bedard as your team will be screwed.

[butterfly]

This is an interesting question because at some point they would say yes to something.

For example if ANA or CLS could acquire the other's pick, then package the two picks with someone like McTavish+Zegras or Johnson+Sillinger, you'd have to seriously think about it.

[flambers]

There is a reason, why a #1 pick is hardly ever traded....

Or a pick in the top 3.

[Bourque's Twin]

2nd overall is proven to be better if 1st goes to the Oilers.

2010:
1. Taylor Hall
2. Tyler Seguin - Stanley Cup Champion

2011:
1. Ryan Nugent Hopkins
2. Gabriel Landeskog - Stanley Cup Champion

2012:
1. Nail Yakupov
2. Ryan Murray - Stanley Cup Champion

2015:
1. Connor McDavid
2. Jack Eichel - Stanley Cup Champion

[The Fonz]

IIRC, Feaster offered every pick in the 2013 draft (which included the 6th overall + 2 picks in the 20s) for the 1st overall (MacKinnon), and Colorado balked, as they should have.

Colorado got MacKinnon + a Stanley Cup.

Flames picks that year ended up being Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk, Kanzig, Roy, Harrison, Rafikov, Gilmour. A bunch of "stuff".

The Flames package doesn't sound nearly as sexy once the draft picks have names.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

2nd overall, Zegras + McTavish + 2024 1st.

This is pretty realistic, IMO.

[MrMike]

To get a sniff at Bedard some team would have to acquire picks 2-4 or 5 and trade those. That’s the only way to me I think.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Ruzicka, Schwindt, Vladar and Rooney (50% retained).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That's fair. I guess where I disagree is that I think you make more money by winning Cups than by having one player that is extremely marketable.

For example I suspect more jersey sales, fan engagement, ticket sales, revenue, etc. are being generated by the Vegas Golden Knights than McDavid's jersey sales. Could be wrong about that but multiple playoff appearances and all the revenues and excitement and longevity breathed into a franchise by winning is likely better than one player.

I also find this conversation interesting in that, I bet similar discussions were had when Lindros was flipped. The Avalanche then went onto win the Cup and have a dynasty team for like a decade and while Lindros was amazing, the Flyers I bet if they had to re-do that trade don't do it.

The Flyers deal wasn't the one the Nords/Avs wanted anyway - they backed out and took the Rangers' offer, which was voided by the NHL on the basis the deal with the Flyers was first and valid. And the Rangers ended up winning the cup with players they didn't end up trading (eg Richter).

Both trades involved cash as well.

[Kipper_3434]

What it would take: Bedard refusing to play with the scummy Chicago franchise. He states he won't sign in Chicago that's what it takes to trade for 1st overall. No trade offer is worth it otherwise

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

That would be a epically bad deal for Anaheim. Bedard will be good but not that good.

He didn't ask what would be the fairest deal. He asked what would push the Chicago GM over the line into moving Bedard.

1. #2 = obviously no
2. #2 + 2024 1st = definitely no
3. #2 + 2024 1st + Zegras = getting better but still obvious no
4. #2 + 2024 1st + Zegras + any Duck other than McTavish = finally something to think on but the answer still comes back no

5. #2 + 2024 1st + Zegras + McTavish = Two sure top 6 but not elite and two question marks for a potential generational player?

Would you go back and see Pit/Col/Edm GM trade:
A. Crosby for Bobby Ryan + 2006 1st + Getzlaf + Perry?
B. MacKinnon for Barkov + 2014 1st + Huberdeau + Matheson?
C. McDavid for Eichel + 2016 1st + Reinhart + Grigorenko?

[The Cobra]

I doubt they would do thew McDavid trade, not because the value is not there, but becaus e the time line does not fit.

Chicago needs to build a team first, and we've seen what a team with McDavid soaking up a bunch of cap space with a poor team around him ends up.

Hawks will build relatively slowly, but with Bedard, a great prospect base, tons of drafts picks and cap space like an expansion team, and a destination players like, the slow game will be relatively quick I imagine.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I doubt they would do thew McDavid trade, not because the value is not there, but becaus e the time line does not fit.

Chicago needs to build a team first, and we've seen what a team with McDavid soaking up a bunch of cap space with a poor team around him ends up.

Hawks will build relatively slowly, but with Bedard, a great prospect base, tons of drafts picks and cap space like an expansion team, and a destination players like, the slow game will be relatively quick I imagine.

Exactly this. Hawks traded away a bunch of players that has trade value. Toews and Kane contracts are done. And they now get a generational talent on a ELC for 3 years, they acquired a ton of draft pick capital. They can homegrow the next face of the franchise, and start using the next 3 years to build pieces around him. They aren't in win now to go and trade their 1st for Mcdavid, who will only make more on next contract and eat up a chunk of salary. They have the opportunity to start fresh with Bedard as their cornerstone.

[Spurs]

I did not realize the Hawks have basically nothing from their past 3 drafts and are further behind in their rebuild than I originally thought. I agree looking at what they have I think the McDavid, one for one, doesn't make sense, even if the Oilers have shown that without surrounding him with anything he can still carry a team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

IIRC, Feaster offered every pick in the 2013 draft (which included the 6th overall + 2 picks in the 20s) for the 1st overall (MacKinnon), and Colorado balked, as they should have.

Colorado got MacKinnon + a Stanley Cup.

Flames picks that year ended up being Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk, Kanzig, Roy, Harrison, Rafikov, Gilmour. A bunch of "stuff".

The Flames package doesn't sound nearly as sexy once the draft picks have names.

Of course their cup didn't come until 2022 so a lot of changes had to be made in Colorado too.

Does it make the package better if the names are:

Round 1: Monahan (or Nikushkin who they got eventually anyway), + Burakovsky (who they got eventually) or Theodore, + Hartman

Round 3: Buchnevich or Guentzel or Verhague

Round 5: Soucy

Round 6: Ummmm - Quine I guess

Round 7: Kubalik and Weegar

[Toonage]

Anyone say Hanowski yet? Am I too late?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

2nd overall is proven to be better if 1st goes to the Oilers.

2010:
1. Taylor Hall
2. Tyler Seguin - Stanley Cup Champion

2011:
1. Ryan Nugent Hopkins
2. Gabriel Landeskog - Stanley Cup Champion

2012:
1. Nail Yakupov
2. Ryan Murray - Stanley Cup Champion

2015:
1. Connor McDavid
2. Jack Eichel - Stanley Cup Champion

Almost as if there's something in the water...

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I did not realize the Hawks have basically nothing from their past 3 drafts and are further behind in their rebuild than I originally thought. I agree looking at what they have I think the McDavid, one for one, doesn't make sense, even if the Oilers have shown that without surrounding him with anything he can still carry a team.

What do you mean nothing?

2022
#7 Korchinski signed to ELC
#13 Nazar Unsigned because he has only completed 1 year NCAA
#25 Rinzel Only 18yo playing in USHL
#39 Ludwinski signed to ELC
#57 Greene Unsigned because he has only completed 1 year NCAA
#66 Hayes signed to ELC
#81 Savoie unsigned (19yo 3 years in QMJHL)

2021
#32 Allan signed to ELC
#62 Dach signed to ELC
#91 Harding Unsigned because he has only completed 2 years NCAA

2020
#17 Reichel signed to ELC
#46 Commesso signed to ELC
#79 Slaggert Unsigned
#81 Kaiser signed to ELC

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What do you mean nothing?

2022
#7 Korchinski signed to ELC
#13 Nazar Unsigned because he has only completed 1 year NCAA
#25 Rinzel Only 18yo playing in USHL
#39 Ludwinski signed to ELC
#57 Greene Unsigned because he has only completed 1 year NCAA
#66 Hayes signed to ELC
#81 Savoie unsigned (19yo 3 years in QMJHL)

2021
#32 Allan signed to ELC
#62 Dach signed to ELC
#91 Harding Unsigned because he has only completed 2 years NCAA

2020
#17 Reichel signed to ELC
#46 Commesso signed to ELC
#79 Slaggert Unsigned
#81 Kaiser signed to ELC

Nothing in terms of significant pieces for a rebuild. There are some decent players but nothing that would indicate you are ready to with a McDavid.

For me the example I would use is Anaheim look at the pieces they have added recently- MacTavish, Zegras, Drysdale plus the secondary pieces, if Chicago had those level of players I think you could justify thinking about going with McDavid, but Chicago doesn't have anyone close to that level right now.

[Enoch Root]

I would not take McDavid one for one, if I'm the Hawks (and that isn't because, Oilers)

Chances are that Bedard won't be as good as McDavid, but he MIGHT be. And he is going to be $10M cheaper for the next 3 years, and still cheaper, after that (unless Bedard turns out to be better than McDavid, in which case, you're glad you kept him).

There is no guarantee of even keeping McDavid, beyond 3 years, whereas you are guaranteed 7 with Bedard, and more if you're smart about it.

If you're offering me McDavid, it would have to include significant cap retention, and probably prospects or picks:

McDavid + 24 and 25 1sts.

That might convince me to take the deal.