Are the flames a true cup contender?

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

115 points in the regular season, 1 goal 5 points in ten post season games.

[442scotty]

Nope… I high quality forward away

[howard_the_duck]

The pieces have potential. I think the first half of the season we’ll see some inconsistency that will be frustrating due to all the new pieces, but could see this team having a good stretch run into the playoffs.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

i mean he hasn't been great here but how soon we forget that toffoli powered the Habs to the finals as a top RW a whole fifteen months ago

I agree. Now he's had a proper training camp with the Flames/Darryl lets see what he can do. He was stupid good for the Habs.

[The Fonz]

Sure seems like the team is short a top-6 RW. If that hole can be filled around the halfway mark of the season or earlier, then yes, I think they’re a true cup contender.

[Jore]

They now have a much stronger spine than last year, and I like their chances better than the previous core, but it remains to be seen how their main pieces gel. Can Huberdeau drive offense again? Can Lindholm drive transition play, which he did not have to last year? Can Kadri keep up his high end centre play?

They're also really weak on RW, and have what the Athletic projected as the worst 4th line in the league.

With all that said, this is the most excited I've been for a season in a while.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Jore

They're also really weak on RW, and have what the Athletic projected as the worst 4th line in the league.

How could this possibly be quantified?

[butterfly]

Successful Sutter teams are not concerned with scoring.

2004 CGY: 19th of 30 GF, 3rd of 30 GA
2012 LA: 29th of 30 GF, 2nd of 30 GA
2014 LA: 25th of 30 GF, 1st of 30 GA

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Successful Sutter teams are not concerned with scoring.

2004 CGY: 19th of 30 GF, 3rd of 30 GA
2012 LA: 29th of 30 GF, 2nd of 30 GA
2014 LA: 25th of 30 GF, 1st of 30 GA

True, those teams had only moderate success in the regular season. all three started the playoffs on the road IIRC.

Last years Flames: 6th of 32 in GF, 3rd of 32 in GA

So the same stingy D, but much more potent offensively led to them being a 111 point team as opposed to a 95~ point team.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

True, those teams had only moderate success in the regular season. all three started the playoffs on the road IIRC.

Last years Flames: 6th of 32 in GF, 3rd of 32 in GA

So the same stingy D, but much more potent offensively led to them being a 111 point team as opposed to a 95~ point team.

Clearly, scoring and defending in the playoffs is more effective than piling up goals in the regular season.

Flames won 18 games last year by 4 or more goals. So that translates to 72GF that "did nothing" for them, but were great for player egos.

(No idea what the equivalent is for the E=NGers)

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Successful Sutter teams are not concerned with scoring.

2004 CGY: 19th of 30 GF, 3rd of 30 GA
2012 LA: 29th of 30 GF, 2nd of 30 GA
2014 LA: 25th of 30 GF, 1st of 30 GA

Those LA teams had a lot of talent it's odd they never score much.

Finishing at the bottom of the league in goals for will have us missing the playoffs. Even if you run up the score it allows the coach to roll the lines and keep guys fresh for the playoffs.

[Mathgod]

Being a cup contender and being the cup favorite are two different things.

Are they the cup favorite? No. They are a true 1st line RW (and maybe other components) away from that.

Are they a contender? Yes.

[bubbsy]

My only concern about the team is if top 6 wingers of toffolli, mangiapane and Dube are good enough to provide consistent offense.

I am also curious about how markstrom performs.

That being said, hard not to be excited. However, I have been a flames fan long enough to not allow myself to fall into the pre-season hype

[Duffalufagus]

I don’t think they are right now for a couple of reasons:

1. I don’t think we are going to replace the scoring we lost. Our top line was the best in the league last year and even though we brought in roughly the same amount of points, that means little when the players haven’t played with their new teammates. Same thing will happen for Gaudreau. And Tkachuk. You just don’t replace best in the league production.

2. I am worried about Markstrom. He got humiliated in the playoffs last year and tendys are a fragile breed. Hope I’m wrong here.

3. Related to #1 - like many have pointed out, we are soft on the right side. And our 4th line is bottom of the barrel. Hoping the centre depth makes up for it.

4. Career years for everyone last year likely regress to the mean. Kadri, Hubby, Lindholm. Mange, all likely regress. I think we struggle to score goals.

Still think this is a playoff team, likely wildcard, but it could take half a season for all these new key pieces to gel. I think the preseason rankings and expectations are way too optimistic. The game is played on the ice, not on paper.

Having said the foregoing, super excited about this season and the beginning of this new era.

[nfotiu]

I didn't read through all the pages, but how can we possibly know??

On paper, they should be up there with the best. I can't think of any other example of a team that turned over so many key players for so many other key players. It is impossible to know how all these guys pay in a Sutter system.

I think we obviously have a very high ceiling (as high as any other team) for this year, but there's a realistic chance nothing will gel and be a disaster.

My guy bet would be a bit of a lackluster start, the team finds some chemistry around American Thanksgiving and is near top of the division by the end of the year and makes a good run in the playoffs.

[PepsiFree]

If they win the cup I will thank ownership…

…by buying a hat (if they make them less ugly).

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Successful Sutter teams are not concerned with scoring.

2004 CGY: 19th of 30 GF, 3rd of 30 GA
2012 LA: 29th of 30 GF, 2nd of 30 GA
2014 LA: 25th of 30 GF, 1st of 30 GA

The NHL has changed a lot over the decades. We're not making the playoffs if we're 29th in GF and 2nd in GA next year.

It's a huge discredit to Sutter to label him as an all defense/no offense coach. He is criminally underrated in his ability and drive to adapt his style to win as the game changes.

His current system is a system that uses the defense to feed the offensively talented guys, not neuter them.

If all goes well, the new guys will thrive and perform at career high levels. But there is a gigantic unknown about whether they'll buy in to his system and gel with the other players.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If they win the cup I will thank ownership…

…by buying a hat (if they make them less ugly).

Are you seriously dragging that into a totally different thread? How many will you drag this into?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Are you seriously dragging that into a totally different thread? How many will you drag this into?

Don’t really have a plan. I believe in the industry they call it a “call-back” and I think it has enough legs to carry us through this season at least. That could be dozens of threads, honestly, stay tuned and thank me later.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

The NHL has changed a lot over the decades.

How many decades ago was 2014 again?

We're not making the playoffs if we're 29th in GF and 2nd in GA next year.

The Flames were 6th in GF last year. They are not going to be 29th this year.