Senators extend C Tim Stützle (8x$8.35M)

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It's 16 two-game samples. The other 1280 games that those teams played are probably more informative of their overall calibre

The other 1280 games are likewise divisible into three- and four-game samples. When you divide one group up to make the small-sample argument and don't divide the other, you are being dishonest.

Playoff history suggests the East was better as they had won 5/6 last cups before this year

Now you're taking one team per year and using that as a proxy for the quality of an entire conference. And you have the nerve to complain about small sample sizes!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The other 1280 games are likewise divisible into three- and four-game samples. When you divide one group up to make the small-sample argument and don't divide the other, you are being dishonest.



Now you're taking one team per year and using that as a proxy for the quality of an entire conference. And you have the nerve to complain about small sample sizes!

If I tried to argue that CGY's 26/24 game sample sizes were a lot more relevant than than a pair of 16 game sample sizes, then sure. But I was arguing against a weak argument that 'the Flames ran through the East so the EC wasn't that great and the PAC wasn't that bad'. Malarkey.

I already provided some other stats to back this up, but here's another: if you compare the teams that finished 1st/2nd/3rd/4th in each division, the PAC team has the fewest points each time...which also lead to it being the only division with just 3 playoff teams (who were overall 7th/11th/14th in the league).

PAC had the 2nd best 5 seed, 3rd best 6 seed, and the best 7 seed...so that's something.



IMO the SCC of a given year does not represent a small sample size...it's the most important outcome of an entire year process. The point I was going for [but too lazy to draw out fully] is that the East has more proven contenders still at the height of their powers:

TBL
NYI
BOS
CAR**
WAS
PIT
OTT
MTL*
(and now NYR)


vs

VGK
DAL
STL
SJ
WPG
NAS
ANA
(and now COL & EDM**)

*MTL cinderella season came in weird division year, in which 3 typically EC teams made CF's along with VGK
**EDM and CAR are the only teams to get swept in the CF's since 2013

DAL and NAS were the 15th and 16th overall teams heading into these playoffs, so STL was probably the only team with a history of contention coming out of the West; compared to the 5 teams listed above from the East. Add COL/NYR and it's still skewed east.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

If I tried to argue that CGY's 26/24 game sample sizes were a lot more relevant than than a pair of 16 game sample sizes, then sure. But I was arguing against a weak argument that 'the Flames ran through the East so the EC wasn't that great and the PAC wasn't that bad'. Malarkey.

I already provided some other stats to back this up, but here's another: if you compare the teams that finished 1st/2nd/3rd/4th in each division, the PAC team has the fewest points each time...which also lead to it being the only division with just 3 playoff teams (who were overall 7th/11th/14th in the league).

PAC had the 2nd best 5 seed, 3rd best 6 seed, and the best 7 seed...so that's something.



IMO the SCC of a given year does not represent a small sample size...it's the most important outcome of an entire year process. The point I was going for [but too lazy to draw out fully] is that the East has more proven contenders still at the height of their powers:

TBL
NYI
BOS
CAR**
WAS
PIT
OTT
MTL*
(and now NYR)


vs

VGK
DAL
STL
SJ
WPG
NAS
ANA
(and now COL & EDM**)

*MTL cinderella season came in weird division year, in which 3 typically EC teams made CF's along with VGK
**EDM and CAR are the only teams to get swept in the CF's since 2013

DAL and NAS were the 15th and 16th overall teams heading into these playoffs, so STL was probably the only team with a history of contention coming out of the West; compared to the 5 teams listed above from the East. Add COL/NYR and it's still skewed east.

The bold is the answer to your second paragraph. This has been explained already: you have argued that the other divisions are stronger, because the top teams have more points. But the reason they do is that the bottom 8 teams in the east were doormats.

The bottom line is that the differences between the divisions and the conferences are marginal at best. The cap does a great job of keeping things pretty level.

The Flames haven't played Pacific teams very well the last couple years, but they have played eastern teams very well. Bottom line is that the Flames were an upper echelon team last year, and project to be again this year.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The bold is the answer to your second paragraph. This has been explained already: you have argued that the other divisions are stronger, because the top teams have more points. But the reason they do is that the bottom 8 teams in the east were doormats.

The bottom line is that the differences between the divisions and the conferences are marginal at best. The cap does a great job of keeping things pretty level.

The Flames haven't played Pacific teams very well the last couple years, but they have played eastern teams very well. Bottom line is that the Flames were an upper echelon team last year, and project to be again this year.

The PAC's less-terrible 7 seed doesn't offset the bad 1-4 seeds.

I agree the differences are marginal, but they do exist. The PAC's top regular season team needed all 7 games and OT to eke past the 15th overall team.

The PAC's playoff winner didn't win a single game in the CFs...there's been only one other sweep BOS over CAR in the 18 CF series since adopting the four division format.

E=NG being the best the Pacific could offer tells you everything you need to know

[Enoch Root]

The point you're missing is that, even if there is a marginal difference, it is completely meaningless and irrelevant

Every team plays some teams well, and struggles with others. That is why it is an 82 game schedule. And after 82 games, the cream rises to the top (as the Flames did)

[powderjunkie]

until they didn't...

[Enoch Root]

what point are you even trying to make?

[powderjunkie]

That the PAC was a weak division, regardless of the Flames strong record against the East.

Winning a beauty pageant in Edmonton is nice, but it gets a lot tougher when you start competing against people with all of their teeth.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

That the PAC was a weak division, regardless of the Flames strong record against the East.

Winning a beauty pageant in Edmonton is nice, but it gets a lot tougher when you start competing against people with all of their teeth.

Which they did last year, as has been pointed out, and as you just agreed to. This is my last comment, as this is pointless.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

if you compare the teams that finished 1st/2nd/3rd/4th in each division, the PAC team has the fewest points each time...which also lead to it being the only division with just 3 playoff teams (who were overall 7th/11th/14th in the league).

Which does not support your claim, because you conveniently left out the other four teams in each division.

IMO the SCC of a given year does not represent a small sample size...it's the most important outcome of an entire year process.

So what? The question is which divisions are better and which are worse. Choosing one team from a division and ignoring the other seven is even worse than choosing four.

The point I was going for [but too lazy to draw out fully] is that the East has more proven contenders still at the height of their powers:

Which does not address the question of whether those divisions are tougher overall. The Atlantic in particular is not, because it also has more proven failures still in the depths of their awfulness.

Most of the best and worst teams in the league last year were in the East. All of the bubble teams were in the West. As for this year, you can speculate all you want, but there are no data yet.