Stars Owner: Top players being paid too much - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

getbak · 09-01-2022, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edslunch

I forget the player, but wasn't it the Oilers who were ripped by Burke a number of years ago for basically killing the traditional second contract?

That was the Penner offer sheet.

OptimalTates · 09-01-2022, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The market saw a shift that began when McDavid was extended. He is a phenom and the Oilers were able to get him to sign max term and buy UFA years so it is understandable.

A shift downwards?

Ovechkin came out of his ELC making 18% of the cap (13 years). Crosby was making 17% (5 years) after his ELC. McDavid was making 16% (8 years) after his ELC.

SebC · 09-01-2022, 05:59 AM

Crosby was obviously taking a discount with the Pens too.

Redlan · 09-01-2022, 08:19 AM

Like most things, AAV probably should fall somewhere closer to the middle. Old FA should get somewhat less pay and younger players should get a bit more. The issue though with RFA’s is the qualifying offer which guarantees a raise not based on merit. So if you are paying them market value prior to the qualifying offer, the next contract may be over valued based on their performance.

powderjunkie · 09-01-2022, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMike

I believe it was Dubas who ruined the second contracts the most, giving those kind of huge contracts to Matthews and Marner over a small period of time.

The issue with those was shorter term moreso than AAV. Dubas got no discount at all for walking each guy to UFA

Vinny01 · 09-01-2022, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

A shift downwards?

Ovechkin came out of his ELC making 18% of the cap (13 years). Crosby was making 17% (5 years) after his ELC. McDavid was making 16% (8 years) after his ELC.

Crosby signed an extension that kicked in for the 08-09 season and it was 15.3%
Ovie’s extension kicked in the same time 16.7%
McDavid’s was 15.7%

Pretty similar with the main difference being outside of anyone’s control is a 3 year flat cap

OptimalTates · 09-01-2022, 04:20 PM

Yeah, so what's the shift that occurred when McDavid signed with Edmonton if it was already happening a decade before with Crosby and Ovechkin?

Oil Stain · 09-01-2022, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Yeah, so what's the shift that occurred when McDavid signed with Edmonton if it was already happening a decade before with Crosby and Ovechkin?

It has been a general shift downwards for star players.

Didn't Richards and Lecavalier get máx cap hit contracts right after the lockout ended?

I think all Ovie and Crosby did with their super long term contracts was artificially set the top of the pay scale. Took a number of years before anyone got paid more than them.

I think perhaps the pendulum is beginning to swing back the other direction. With guys like Doughty and Karlsson getting $11 million and all the D last year getting 9+.

Also guys like Marner and Matthews got big deals. I think we will see more top guys pushing for the max they can get going forwards.

Vinny01 · 09-01-2022, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Yeah, so what's the shift that occurred when McDavid signed with Edmonton if it was already happening a decade before with Crosby and Ovechkin?

There wasn’t a shift at the end of the day. I think the flat cap gave the optics it may have because the % of the cap hasn’t been decreasing during the McDavid deal like it did with Crosby and Ovie and the cap was rising at a higher % prior to their extensions as well. The McDavid deal was in line with the other generational talents. The cap rose 13% through the first 4 years of the Crosby/Ovie extensions to 2.5% during the McDavid contract which is obviously pandemic related and not something that could have been predicted.

butterfly · 10-03-2022, 03:11 PM

Jason Robertson is still sitting around. They're playing a 19-year-old 1st rounder with no pro experience on PP1. When does this get resolved?

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/st...th-power-play/

powderjunkie · 10-03-2022, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butterfly

Jason Robertson is still sitting around. They're playing a 19-year-old 1st rounder with no pro experience on PP1. When does this get resolved?

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/st...th-power-play/

The important thing here is that Jason Robertson will learn the lesson from Dallas owner's past mistakes

agulati · 10-03-2022, 05:30 PM

Ugh. Why isn’t this resolved yet. I’ve Robertson in a keeper league, but I’m not sure if I should keep him or not.

activeStick · 10-03-2022, 05:49 PM

Keep him... They'll get him signed before season starts. Though without a training camp, he'll start slow.

corporatejay · 10-03-2022, 08:14 PM

McDavid took a discount. Anyone thinking he couldn’t have got the max or offer sheeted for the max is crazy.

Enoch Root · 10-03-2022, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corporatejay

McDavid took a discount. Anyone thinking he couldn’t have got the max or offer sheeted for the max is crazy.

No one has signed for the max, including Crosby

And McDavid was signing a post-ELC contract.

It was not a discount

agulati · 10-03-2022, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by activeStick

Keep him... They'll get him signed before season starts. Though without a training camp, he'll start slow.

3 keepers. I’m tempted to keep Barkov, Ovi and Tkachuk, since Robertson looks like he will miss the whole or most of camp.

GioforPM · 10-03-2022, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No one has signed for the max, including Crosby

And McDavid was signing a post-ELC contract.

It was not a discount

I forget. Didn’t McDavid also sign a year early? If so, no offer sheet possible. I’m also not convinced he’s just plain dumb.

powderjunkie · 10-03-2022, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I forget. Didn’t McDavid also sign a year early? If so, no offer sheet possible. I’m also not convinced he’s just plain dumb.

Yup, it was a bit of a discount IMO, but mostly for being 1 year early. Securing $100M makes a lot more sense than risking another year to go for $120M, before you even consider the implications to team building.

Also it was before Matthews and Marner changed the RFA norms. In today's context, Mavi's biggest 'discount' was giving 8 yrs instead of 5-6.

I wonder what term Matthews will sign for next. ELC-5-5-7 is probably the best way to maximize a 20 yr career (but of course has more risk)

butterfly · 10-03-2022, 09:23 PM

Kind of hoping we could talk about Jason Robertson and leave the McDavid stuff to the other 6 threads we're obsessed with him in.

GioforPM · 10-03-2022, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Yup, it was a bit of a discount IMO, but mostly for being 1 year early. Securing $100M makes a lot more sense than risking another year to go for $120M, before you even consider the implications to team building.

Also it was before Matthews and Marner changed the RFA norms. In today's context, Mavi's biggest 'discount' was giving 8 yrs instead of 5-6.

I wonder what term Matthews will sign for next. ELC-5-5-7 is probably the best way to maximize a 20 yr career (but of course has more risk)

At the time he wasn’t that far removed from his only big injury so he may have had that in the back of his mind too