Tank for Bedard

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

We weren’t supposed to make the playoffs, won the division and were in the 2nd round. Our best players had career years and are in their primes. Our coach established a winning culture and system.

You tweak that, not blow it up. Get a clue.

The 2015 Flames also weren't supposed to make the playoffs, were also in the second round, had career years from their best players all in their prime, had a Jack Adams winning coach establish a winning culture. The Flames tweaked. They added Frolik and Hamilton. The 2015 Oilers won the McDavid Lottery. The Flames were not good enough to even make the playoffs the next year, but also not bad enough to get Auston Matthews. And the next year they got Juuso Valimaki while the Avs added Cale Makar.... speaking of which...

The 2019 Flames also won the division and had a winning system. It all meant nothing getting backdoor swept by an Avs team just two years removed from a historically pitiful 48 point season. The Flames tweaked. They replaced Neal with Lucic. They moved Mangiapane up the lineup into Frolik's role. They moved Lindholm to centre. They eventually replaced Monahan with Coleman in their top six. They transitioned to the post-Giordano era. But the results, at best, were identical. Only real difference being that Backlund had a better series, and that no one in our blueline was Hamonic levels of useless (outside of Hanifin-2022, but he was Hanifin-2019 levels of useless).

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't really understand your point. Is anyone in this thread questioning the Flames as their team of choice?

We simply want to see this team acquire elite talent. When you look at the teams remaining in the playoffs, you see the talent they have, they acquired a big chunk of it by drafting high.

That cheering for losses is tacky. If they have to rebuild eventually (they will), they have to rebuild. Maybe in the process they end up with a high pick, maybe they don’t, but tanking and cheering for tanking is just incredibly lame to me. I’d lose respect for people.

If it’s just about winning the cup and you’re rooting for a few years of the team losing on purpose so that maybe you have a shot at it 5-10 years down the road, we’re different people. And at that point, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just go cheer for a team that’s already gone through the process.

If you’re happy to see the team lose, what the difference does the crest make?

I don’t know my point. My enjoyment of the game and my love for the Flames isn’t cup or bust, I’m happy with this year, I had fun, that’s why I cheer for them. It’s obviously different for other people. Which is fine.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

he's also 32 years old and will be 33 before the end of the year

Then Ras and Noah take over after a couple years. They are both still a couple years away from their primes

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you’re that jealous of them go cheer for the same team, then. I’m not better than they are (well, they’re Oilers fans, so I might be), I’m sure there are plenty of Oiler fans who hated the tank. I’m sure they’re all loving this result though. As they should, that’s their team. You can go cheer for the Avalanche if you’d rather, or uhhh Arizona? Are they tanking? I don’t know what they’re doing.

I wouldn’t say I’m proud of losing to them, because it’s just the Oilers, but I enjoyed watching the Flames try to overcome McDavid. That top line was deadly, but I liked the adjustments, and they made it close in games 4 and 5. I had fun watching a team actually give a #### even as they lost, crazy, I know.

If you can’t enjoy hockey unless you’re cheering for a cup winner, go cheer for a cup winner. It’s a lot easier. If you’d rather cheer for a team purposely mailing it in for years just because there might be a chance at a cup at the end of it, fill your boots, but it’s not for me. I just think it’s kind of lame.

What the hell are you on about? We've all cheered for the Flames. Only the Flames. Through total mediocrity, we're not out here bandwagoning the Avs or the Lightning.

We've cheered plenty for the same mediocrity you've cheered for. Don't act like we're inferior fans for not thinking the status quo is the only option.

Know what's actually lame?

Preferring to lose to your deepest rival over preferring a chance to beat your deepest rival because you think a few down years are embarassing or something. Pro sports all have ebbs and flows. Teams trying so hard to avoid the ebbs that they never get the flows is less fun. Period. It's not cheering for losses. It's not being fairweather fans. It's not being frontrunners. It's just the reality of North American pro sports. Wanting to cheer for your own team to have a moment of glory once in your lifetime isn't lame. Cheering for a team for the sole sake of mindlessly cheering for the team is lame.

[dino7c]

league is ####ing rigged against the Flames...you want them to be the worst team in the league for an 80% chance (100% lets be real) chance of not getting him?

[Boreal]

Tanks but no tanks.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by fleury

I posted this in the PGT:


Off-season changes:
Deal Tkachuk
Buyout Lucic
Deal at loss, Monahan
Deal Kylington
Deal Anderson
Deal Stone


Sign #1 d-man
Acquire blue chip prospects, high draft picks
Sign Gaudreau if under $9M/season for 4 years
More speed, smarter defenceman who can play two way hockey

So, you are letting Johnny walk for nothing?

And presumably giving up a first in ? for moving Monny.

And why buyout Lucic when you have tons of cap room.

Stone is a UFA.

And how are you getting those blue chip prospects and high draft picks?

[PeteMoss]

Sleep it off

[Boreal]

Watch Draisatl need ankle surgery and be done for the season, McDingle get hurt & the Lottery Queens restart the Oil tanker.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

We weren’t supposed to make the playoffs, won the division and were in the 2nd round. Our best players had career years and are in their primes. Our coach established a winning culture and system.

You tweak that, not blow it up. Get a clue.

The Flames weren't supposed to mak3 the playoffs...because they haven't been good enough for a few years but after 1 year we're ready to call then legit? Was this year the way the team really is and every other year was wrong or was this year just magic beans?

Best players all had career years...and still couldn't beat a division rival. Isn't that just saying our best players aren't as good as their best players? So they need to hope they can either improve or at least play this well from now on AND hope other teams regress at the same time? The Flames did their best, it's something to be proud of. The problem is that their best wasn't good enough, should they just stay as is or try to change things?

Coach established a winning culture, again, he got the most he could out of most every player...and they lost. The players can be proud that they did their best, the coach can be proud because he got the best from his players. Management can even be proud that the team they assembled was a top 8 team....but unless they're happy with just being a top 8 team, they need to make changes.


If you have a Cadillac and you put the fastest engine that will fit in it and make all the best modifications you can to that car amd it still isn't winning races, do you just enjoy the ride knowing you can't get any faster but you tried your best and you like the car. Or do you get a different car and start over?

[Hockey_Ninja]

There’s just no way a rebuild/tank is gonna happen with Darryl behind the bench

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

There’s just no way a rebuild/tank is gonna happen with Darryl behind the bench

The way he coached against the Oilers, he’ll be a tank commander instead

[OutOfTheCube]

As a fan of a team that tanked for McDavid, didn’t get him, got a much worse player, then absolutely sucked for like six years trying to get away from that losing culture, this is not what you want to see. Trust me.

[Vinny01]

Stating that the team needs to tank to get a player only 1 team gets is as silly as starting a thread saying they need to win the cup. Only 1 team of 32 does both.

Letting Johnny walk is easy enough but then you lose your best player for nothing. Next you need to fire Sutter because he won’t tank. Then you need to trade Lindholm, Tkachuk, Anderson and or Hanifin along with Markstrom.

Is this team going to dump their top line, starting goalie, top pair, and fire their Jack Adam’s winning coach? Shamelessly tank when they struggled to sell out the building with a division winning team?

We would all love Connor Bedard but people need to use logic and critical thinking to see it is so much easier said than done

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Sleep it off

Didn’t work. This will always be the playoffs where the Flames were deliberately screwed by the NHL because after 7 years they had to get McDavid to Round 3.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

As a fan of a team that tanked for McDavid, didn’t get him, got a much worse player, then absolutely sucked for like six years trying to get away from that losing culture, this is not what you want to see. Trust me.

Edmonton started tanking 12 years ago and have finally broken through. All it took was winning the once in a generation talent in a timeframe where they picked in the top ten 11 times in 13 years.

Buffalo is a prime example of how this takes forever to work. They also have had a horrendous run and since they didn’t get McDavid they have not been able to pull themselves out.

Flames are a similar market to those teams and shamelessly tanking likely leads to a decade of darkness before it leads to a cup

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Edmonton started tanking 12 years ago and have finally broken through. All it took was winning the once in a generation talent in a timeframe where they picked in the top ten 11 times in 13 years.

Buffalo is a prime example of how this takes forever to work. They also have had a horrendous run and since they didn’t get McDavid they have not been able to pull themselves out.

Flames are a similar market to those teams and shamelessly tanking likely leads to a decade of darkness before it leads to a cup

The highlight of the flames last decade has been watching their biggest rival smacking them up in 5 games when games actually count.

Either change the bar of what is viewed as success or else we must simply be satisfied that years like this (playoff team, squeak thru the first round) are the ultimate goal and target of the team.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

The highlight of the flames last decade has been watching their biggest rival smacking them up in 5 games when games actually count.

Either change the bar of what is viewed as success or else we must simply be satisfied that years like this (playoff team, squeak thru the first round) are the ultimate goal and target of the team.

So it has to happen all at once? This team took a step this year no doubt. We should try and win as long as Sutter is here and committed.

Flames lost in 5 games but 3 of those were very winnable. They had a bad series but were not blown out like they were against the Avs

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What the hell are you on about? We've all cheered for the Flames. Only the Flames. Through total mediocrity, we're not out here bandwagoning the Avs or the Lightning.

We've cheered plenty for the same mediocrity you've cheered for. Don't act like we're inferior fans for not thinking the status quo is the only option.

Know what's actually lame?

Preferring to lose to your deepest rival over preferring a chance to beat your deepest rival because you think a few down years are embarassing or something. Pro sports all have ebbs and flows. Teams trying so hard to avoid the ebbs that they never get the flows is less fun. Period. It's not cheering for losses. It's not being fairweather fans. It's not being frontrunners. It's just the reality of North American pro sports. Wanting to cheer for your own team to have a moment of glory once in your lifetime isn't lame. Cheering for a team for the sole sake of mindlessly cheering for the team is lame.

I don’t know what to tell you other than the fact that, if you’ve been paying attention to the NHL over the last 20 years, tanking doesn’t magically erase the possibility of losing to your deepest rival. Ask Florida. We had a chance this time, we blew it, sucks but that’s hockey.

Nobody “prefers” to lose to Edmonton over having the chance to beat them, it’s just idiotic to think tanking some how makes that possibility go away. If that’s what you think, you don’t understand the game and you haven’t been paying attention.

As I said, sometimes teams have to rebuild, it is what it is. But tanking is something different. We all want the Flames to have a chance at glory, but if that’s all you care about, so much so that you would cheer for losses and hope the team throws multiple seasons trying to get “the one” player they need, you might as well just cheer for team that has already done it. Because it’s not a lock, and you obviously don’t appreciate watching the game itself as much as you want to say you cheer for the champ, so just pick a team that is already built the way you want and go cheer for them. No shame in it, you’ll be happier, you get what you want the easy way. Simple stuff.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So it has to happen all at once? This team took a step this year no doubt. We should try and win as long as Sutter is here and committed.

Flames lost in 5 games but 3 of those were very winnable. They had a bad series but were not blown out like they were against the Avs

The challenge for me is that this isn't your typical, growing as a group, year. This isn't a situation like the lightening that they can come back stronger after learning from this.

Their primary offensive threat, 2 of their most important forwards might not even be here.

If try can keep those guys and continue to build around them, sure. If not, tweaking around what's left without gaudreau and tkachuk is useless. Need to replace those guys. Only can happen thru the draft. Or we use the opened up cap and overspend on guys like Coleman.