Obi-Wan Kenobi | Disney+ | (spoilers)

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

Darth Maul was literally chopped in two and fell down a classic Star Wars bottomless shaft - and he came back. I don’t think it would be any stretch to bring back Mace Windu.

And there were no Jedi around during the reign of the Empire, Luke was their only hope.

Except for the absolute tons of Jedi just wandering around and hanging out.

If I were Luke who basically had to save the whole damned Galaxy on his own I'd have been lividly pissed at all of these noble bastards who were too dignified and haughty to have stepped in and helped out.

[CaptainCrunch]

From a story telling point of view, I'd rather not have a Jedi that was in direct confrontation with Sidious during Order 66 surviving. It would further make Palpatine look dumb. Kinda like my gear grind with Legends EU where Luke was basically tripping over former Jedi's who had escaped Order 66.


And yeah if Mace had survived, its unlikely that he would just sit on the sidelines during the rise of the Empire knowing that Palpatine was Sidious.



He's grape jelly. Sure he can come back as a force ghost, but how'd that be interesting. He was one of the biggest aholes on the Jedi Council.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

Darth Maul was literally chopped in two and fell down a classic Star Wars bottomless shaft - and he came back. I don’t think it would be any stretch to bring back Mace Windu.

When did he come back? I don't follow cartoons or books.

[Flabbibulin]

Not jumping ship or anything, but a tiny bit concerned about this.

The show changed writers because Lucasfilm was looking, "ultimately, to make a hopeful, uplifting story," said Kathleen Kennedy.

“Army of the Dead” writer Joby Harold was brought in to overhaul the scripts, working closely with series director Deborah Chow. The two did a full revamp of the show, with Chow saying that “we inherited some of it, but we did really make some significant changes and add a few different elements.”

https://www.indiewire.com/2022/03/ob...rk-1234707478/

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When did he come back? I don't follow cartoons or books.

In the Clone Wars.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When did he come back? I don't follow cartoons or books.

He was a pretty major character in Clone Wars returning to take over the criminal underworld. His story line was concluded beautifully in Rebels. He also made an appearance at the end of Solo.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't know how the story can be uprising. I mean lets see. Obi-Wan on the run for his life. Inquisitors. The Empire at its height of power and brutality. At some point Obi realizes that his former best friend and betrayer is alive and a rage machine. But look a kitten!.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Not jumping ship or anything, but a tiny bit concerned about this.



https://www.indiewire.com/2022/03/ob...rk-1234707478/

How does Kathleen Kennedy still have a job?

At the very least though, the very least, once the scripts were done they should have gone to Filoni and Favreau and asked:

"Is this okay? Is it good? Or are we about to 'own goal' ourselves again? Does Ewan deserve better than this?"

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

From a story telling point of view, I'd rather not have a Jedi that was in direct confrontation with Sidious during Order 66 surviving. It would further make Palpatine look dumb. Kinda like my gear grind with Legends EU where Luke was basically tripping over former Jedi's who had escaped Order 66.


And yeah if Mace had survived, its unlikely that he would just sit on the sidelines during the rise of the Empire knowing that Palpatine was Sidious.



He's grape jelly. Sure he can come back as a force ghost, but how'd that be interesting. He was one of the biggest aholes on the Jedi Council.

I mean, didn’t both Yoda and Obi Wan just go into hiding and sit on the sidelines during the rise of the Empire? While pinning all their hopes on the idiot farm boy son of their greatest enemy with a strong chance of him just turning to be bad anyways? Yoda had a direct conflict with Sideous. I think there’s room for a physically and mentally broken old Mace Windu living as a hermit somewhere with a metal appendage like the rest of the surviving Jedi. And wouldn’t this show be an exact vehicle to show that if he did survive he did not sit on the sidelines. Maybe he did try to organize a revolt and was thwarted and killed or who knows? Lots of ways it could be done in a way that’s interesting IMO. More choices than QuiGon. He’s can only be a ghost that delivers wisdom. Nothing else he can do.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Coach

I mean, didn’t both Yoda and Obi Wan just go into hiding and sit on the sidelines during the rise of the Empire? While pinning all their hopes on the idiot farm boy son of their greatest enemy with a strong chance of him just turning to be bad anyways? Yoda had a direct conflict with Sideous. I think there’s room for a physically and mentally broken old Mace Windu living as a hermit somewhere with a metal appendage like the rest of the surviving Jedi. And wouldn’t this show be an exact vehicle to show that if he did survive he did not sit on the sidelines. Maybe he did try to organize a revolt and was thwarted and killed or who knows? Lots of ways it could be done in a way that’s interesting IMO. More choices than QuiGon. He’s can only be a ghost that delivers wisdom. Nothing else he can do.

Maybe....maybe Mace Windu and Saw Gerrera are the same dude?

I have to say though, the 'Jedi coming out of the woodwork' after Luke had to do everything on his own is getting kind of annoying.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Locke

Maybe....maybe Mace Windu and Saw Gerrera are the same dude?

I have to say though, the 'Jedi coming out of the woodwork' after Luke had to do everything on his own is getting kind of annoying.

Well that’s what I mean. If you put Windu in this show, and have him actually trying to start a revolt and end up dying or something, then it wouldn’t be “Jedi from the woodwork”. Maybe he comes to Obi Wan with a plan and Mace’s failure is another reason Kenobi stays hidden for so long. It’s still the early days of the Empire and Luke is just a kid. If he was still around in ANH, sure.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Coach

I mean, didn’t both Yoda and Obi Wan just go into hiding and sit on the sidelines during the rise of the Empire? While pinning all their hopes on the idiot farm boy son of their greatest enemy with a strong chance of him just turning to be bad anyways? Yoda had a direct conflict with Sideous. I think there’s room for a physically and mentally broken old Mace Windu living as a hermit somewhere with a metal appendage like the rest of the surviving Jedi. And wouldn’t this show be an exact vehicle to show that if he did survive he did not sit on the sidelines. Maybe he did try to organize a revolt and was thwarted and killed or who knows? Lots of ways it could be done in a way that’s interesting IMO. More choices than QuiGon. He’s can only be a ghost that delivers wisdom. Nothing else he can do.

Sure, Obi-Wan went into hiding, remember Yoda basically telling him that he was no match for Sidious. Even Yoda pretty much got wrecked by Sidious in their fight. He even admitted in the ROTS novel, that the Jedi had been preparing for the Sith of a 1000 years ago, and the Sith had evolved and Yoda just didn't have it to beat Sidious and so he fled into exile. I'm pretty satisfied that even the most powerful Jedi of his time couldn't stand up to the Sith, and the time of the Jedi was over until the Force decided that it wasn't.

Mace was nowhere near as powerful as Yoda, so Sidious beating him and destroying him as the apex kill of Order 66 is actually something that makes Sidious and the Sith look even more unpowerful.

I would rather not see Jedi turning up all willy nilly, I mean Ashoka, sure but remember, she had left the Jedi order, and while she did take on Vader and fought him to a draw. Her going against Sidious would be very bad.

Kanan fled and for a long time didn't live as a Jedi, nor did the character from the video game.

As it is, There were really no Jedi Masters left except for Yoda and Ben. It should stay that way.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sure, Obi-Wan went into hiding, remember Yoda basically telling him that he was no match for Sidious. Even Yoda pretty much got wrecked by Sidious in their fight. He even admitted in the ROTS novel, that the Jedi had been preparing for the Sith of a 1000 years ago, and the Sith had evolved and Yoda just didn't have it to beat Sidious and so he fled into exile. I'm pretty satisfied that even the most powerful Jedi of his time couldn't stand up to the Sith, and the time of the Jedi was over until the Force decided that it wasn't.

Mace was nowhere near as powerful as Yoda, so Sidious beating him and destroying him as the apex kill of Order 66 is actually something that makes Sidious and the Sith look even more unpowerful.

I would rather not see Jedi turning up all willy nilly, I mean Ashoka, sure but remember, she had left the Jedi order, and while she did take on Vader and fought him to a draw. Her going against Sidious would be very bad.

Kanan fled and for a long time didn't live as a Jedi, nor did the character from the video game.

As it is, There were really no Jedi Masters left except for Yoda and Ben. It should stay that way.

My point is that, because of where/when this show is set, he can show up here and it can still be this way by the end.

The whole point about Yoda being no match confuses me. We can't bring back Mace because he wouldn't be just hermiting in fear, but Yoda, the most powerful light side force user, is all good to be hermiting in fear? Don't the Inquisitors (obviously playing a big role here) exist as a means to specifically hunt surviving Jedi during this time period? That implies that a lot more Jedi than just these few survived the Order, at least initially and or the first few years of being hunted. To me, the idea that only a handful of Jedi survived the initial Order is super unrealistic. All the Jedi all of a sudden were gunned down by inferior Clone Troopers after surviving a decade of all out war in which they battled thousands of robot armies programmed and built specifically to kill them? I don't think they all went down like chumps on day one. Why else would the Inquisitors even exist?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sure, Obi-Wan went into hiding, remember Yoda basically telling him that he was no match for Sidious. Even Yoda pretty much got wrecked by Sidious in their fight. He even admitted in the ROTS novel, that the Jedi had been preparing for the Sith of a 1000 years ago, and the Sith had evolved and Yoda just didn't have it to beat Sidious and so he fled into exile. I'm pretty satisfied that even the most powerful Jedi of his time couldn't stand up to the Sith, and the time of the Jedi was over until the Force decided that it wasn't.

Mace was nowhere near as powerful as Yoda, so Sidious beating him and destroying him as the apex kill of Order 66 is actually something that makes Sidious and the Sith look even more unpowerful.

I would rather not see Jedi turning up all willy nilly, I mean Ashoka, sure but remember, she had left the Jedi order, and while she did take on Vader and fought him to a draw. Her going against Sidious would be very bad.

Kanan fled and for a long time didn't live as a Jedi, nor did the character from the video game.

As it is, There were really no Jedi Masters left except for Yoda and Ben. It should stay that way.

"Somehow, Palpatine 800 Jedi are back."

The Magic of Disney.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Coach

My point is that, because of where/when this show is set, he can show up here and it can still be this way by the end.

The whole point about Yoda being no match confuses me. We can't bring back Mace because he wouldn't be just hermiting in fear, but Yoda, the most powerful light side force user, is all good to be hermiting in fear? Don't the Inquisitors (obviously playing a big role here) exist as a means to specifically hunt surviving Jedi during this time period? That implies that a lot more Jedi than just these few survived the Order, at least initially and or the first few years of being hunted. To me, the idea that only a handful of Jedi survived the initial Order is super unrealistic. All the Jedi all of a sudden were gunned down by inferior Clone Troopers after surviving a decade of all out war in which they battled thousands of robot armies programmed and built specifically to kill them? I don't think they all went down like chumps on day one. Why else would the Inquisitors even exist?

The inquisitors exist to hunt down any remaining lost Jedi. Mostly Younglings and Padawans and some nights and masters survived the purges of Order 66.



Their actual mission was to find Force Senstive children and either kill them or bring them back for indoctrination so the Jedi couldn't rise again.


Yoda was the light sides version of Sidious at the time, he was peerlessly powerful in the force, though on the other side of things, he like the Jedi were grossly misguided and didn't understand the enemy that they faced. The Sith had hidden away for a 1000 years, learning everything about the Force and its power and learning about the Jedi. So the Jedi had stagnated and fallen to corruption. Its why the Force literally abandoned them. Remember their ability to use the Force was compromised. This happened to Palpatine later on when his own arrogance blinded him.


Yoda thought he could march into Sidious' office and deal with him like the Jedi had dealt with the Sith in the past. Instead he found a Sith who was basically a black hole in the Force.


Mace never had a chance, it was enough that Sidious basically fought the best Swordsman the Jedi had ever seen. But that he toyed with Mace in the end to help in the seduction of Anakin to the Sith. Like I said, I don't mind that Yoda survived, but was humbled. But any other lesser Jedi like lets say Kenobi or Mace needs to be dead.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The inquisitors exist to hunt down any remaining lost Jedi. Mostly Younglings and Padawans and some nights and masters survived the purges of Order 66.



Their actual mission was to find Force Senstive children and either kill them or bring them back for indoctrination so the Jedi couldn't rise again.


Yoda was the light sides version of Sidious at the time, he was peerlessly powerful in the force, though on the other side of things, he like the Jedi were grossly misguided and didn't understand the enemy that they faced. The Sith had hidden away for a 1000 years, learning everything about the Force and its power and learning about the Jedi. So the Jedi had stagnated and fallen to corruption. Its why the Force literally abandoned them. Remember their ability to use the Force was compromised. This happened to Palpatine later on when his own arrogance blinded him.


Yoda thought he could march into Sidious' office and deal with him like the Jedi had dealt with the Sith in the past. Instead he found a Sith who was basically a black hole in the Force.


Mace never had a chance, it was enough that Sidious basically fought the best Swordsman the Jedi had ever seen. But that he toyed with Mace in the end to help in the seduction of Anakin to the Sith. Like I said, I don't mind that Yoda survived, but was humbled. But any other lesser Jedi like lets say Kenobi or Mace needs to be dead.

Okay. But in the time period of this show, that doesn't mean they have to be dead yet.

All your points about the fall of the Jedi and Yoda specifically don't really matter. The fact is (as you even mention) obviously some Jedi survive the initial strike of the order, likely being on the run for years before being hunted. I just don't see why Mace can't be one for a couple scenes.

For the record, I think that scene between Mace and Sidious sucks for all the reasons the prequels are bad. Awesome ideas with awful execution.

- The other two Jedi that were there to arrest Sidious went down like clowns. Sidious is the ultimate but like, come on. You're Jedi Knights still.
- The dialogue between Sidious and Windu is peak Star Wars bad.
- I don't see why they had to make Sidious have this ridiculous deformation. He didn't look like that in the originals. He just looked like really old man with no soul. They decided to give him a scrotum head for no reason.
- Anakin should have pushed Mace out the window. Or straight up Dooku'd him. Yeah he cut off his hand, but it should have been the true turning point for him and straight murdering a former master for his new one would have beena way better show of power by Sidious IMO.

TL;DR. I don't think bringing back Windu in this series mitigates any of the lore of Star Wars and that even Star Wars doesn't take it that seriously.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Not jumping ship or anything, but a tiny bit concerned about this.



https://www.indiewire.com/2022/03/ob...rk-1234707478/

They were delayed a year because of COVID and sounds like it was to the show's benefit.

The plot leaks of the before and after overhaul look like a huge improvement. Before that treatment, you were looking at a BOBF type setup with nearly the whole show taking place on Tatooine. And a central character bonding with the sandpeople. Sounds like they just moved that idea to the other show and went in a different direction with this one (thank god).

I'm encouraged by what I've read on the direction of the show so far, should be interesting, fill in the gaps pretty nicely and the stakes will be high.

I don't mind there being an uplifting conclusion, as long as they delve into the despair and isolation that was felt after order 66. It sounds like there will still be plenty of 'losses' on the good side in this one, too.

[GreenLantern]

One of the biggest moves nobody saw coming was killing all the 'heroes' off in Rogue One.

That movie apparently under went massive re shoots as well. Not sure exactly what changed, but that is one of my favourite movies of all time, let alone Star Wars movies.

I don't always see rewrites and re shoots as a necessarily bad thing. Hell Marvel is famous for it now. Maybe it's actually the recipe for success?

[KTrain]

Yeah, rewrites aren't always the same as they used to be. Rogue One had a rewrite, reshoots AND new director and it's easily one of the best SW movies. Top 3 in my opinion.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

One of the biggest moves nobody saw coming was killing all the 'heroes' off in Rogue One.

That movie apparently under went massive re shoots as well. Not sure exactly what changed, but that is one of my favourite movies of all time, let alone Star Wars movies.

I don't always see rewrites and re shoots as a necessarily bad thing. Hell Marvel is famous for it now. Maybe it's actually the recipe for success?

Hmmm....I dont know about that.

I remember posting when it came out that since we literally never hear about these characters ever again (always a danger in prequels) that they would have to die.

So it was going to be a challenge to get people to care about characters they've never heard of and know are going to kick it.

I do agree with you that Rogue One was excellent, I still really enjoy that movie.