[News] Bob Murray resigns and enters an alcohol-related abuse program

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That’s how the machine works - a machine we the fans are all a part of too. How many of us cared that by all accounts Geoff Ward is a hell of a guy? We didn’t; we wanted the loser gone. Efforts to keep people like Murray out of the game will struggle against the power of that machine.

Just need to find a coach that's nice and wins.

[Knightslayer]

This isn't about being nice or mean. Some are totally missing the point. You can be mean like tortorella but by all accounts Tortorella is a pretty good person outside the rink and cares about his players.

Murray was texting players...coaches...management, threatening them. This is totally different than being mean or a good guy like Ward.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

This isn't about being nice or mean. Some are totally missing the point. You can be mean like tortorella but by all accounts Tortorella is a pretty good person outside the rink and cares about his players.

Murray was texting players...coaches...management, threatening them. This is totally different than being mean or a good guy like Ward.

Yeah, I don’t think anyone ever accused Sutter of being nice, but I also think he reserves his toughness for actual game stuff, and I think he cares. Burke as well, for that matter. I don’t like the guys who pretend to be Mr. Nice Guy and aren’t.

Some coaches get personal, threaten livelihoods, abuse their position, etc.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Sounds like the opposite is true. He has been doing this for years. This doesn't happen if the Beach accusations don't come to the forefront.

This whole situation comes across as a complete joke. So the Ducks, players and staff were well aware of Murray being a complete jerk (and possibly worse), yet they continued to employ him for years and even promoted him to GM?

Suddenly now is the time to dig into this to protect their employees and make things right, and for no other reason than the organization is fearing reprisal for further inaction now? GTHO Ducks. What a joke of a maneuver for no other reason than to try to save face.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Aldrich was just the first of many. Knew more was gonna come after the Blackhawks fiasco.

What? This has nothing do with sexual assault.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, I don’t think anyone ever accused Sutter of being nice, but I also think he reserves his toughness for actual game stuff, and I think he cares. Burke as well, for that matter. I don’t like the guys who pretend to be Mr. Nice Guy and aren’t.

Some coaches get personal, threaten livelihoods, abuse their position, etc.

I've heard numerous times, from numerous individuals that Sutter is an extremely nice, caring guy. I can say the few times that I've interacted with him, albeit briefly, have lead me to agree with this sentiment.

His no nonsense demeanor revolves around the game, practice and preparation at the rink, which frankly, this world today needs a lot more of in all facets whether sport or other profession. Anyone who builds a career off of abuse and personal attacks has no place in any profession let alone coaching, team management etc.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I've heard numerous times, from numerous individuals that Sutter is an extremely nice, caring guy. I can say the few times that I've interacted with him, albeit briefly, have lead me to agree with this sentiment.

His no nonsense demeanor revolves around the game, practice and preparation at the rink, which frankly, this world today needs a lot more of in all facets whether sport or other profession. Anyone who builds a career off of abuse and personal attacks has no place in any profession let alone coaching, team management etc.

I suspect having a special needs kid like Sutter or maybe a kid in a group that suffers discrimination like Burke can lead to a guy who is a little more in tune with other people.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

This isn't about being nice or mean. Some are totally missing the point. You can be mean like tortorella but by all accounts Tortorella is a pretty good person outside the rink and cares about his players.

Murray was texting players...coaches...management, threatening them. This is totally different than being mean or a good guy like Ward.

There are quite a few players with some pretty negative things to say about Torts off the ice. Apparently his treatment of Derek Boogaard and that entire situation was pretty bad.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

What? This has nothing do with sexual assault.

I just think the Aldrich situation opened the door for more toxic people in high positions in the league of being exposed for bad behavior. Obviously not every case is gonna be as serious as sexual assault. I’m not comparing the two at all.

[Racki]

It seems like there is a reckoning taking place, and it's probably overdue. By no means do I think we need to be overly politically correct and cancel everyone or everything that was a little offside. However, what we used to consider acceptable behavior, isn't okay anymore.

I think that's what happening is a moving of the goal posts, and I think it's a good thing. It probably started with the #metoo movement, but it's worked it's way into other realms, pro sports, the workplace, schools, churches and other areas.

At some point hopefully we find a new middle ground where things that were just accepted 30 years ago (that were flat out wrong) can now be challenged. Challenging these ideas doesn't have to make you a "snowflake" either, but maybe we can also get to a place where we don't have to cancel someone because they told an off colour joke in 1987...

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I've heard numerous times, from numerous individuals that Sutter is an extremely nice, caring guy. I can say the few times that I've interacted with him, albeit briefly, have lead me to agree with this sentiment.

His no nonsense demeanor revolves around the game, practice and preparation at the rink, which frankly, this world today needs a lot more of in all facets whether sport or other profession. Anyone who builds a career off of abuse and personal attacks has no place in any profession let alone coaching, team management etc.

The only one was Daniel Carcillo saying Sutter Kicked him on the bench. Nothing else though.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Knut

The only one was Daniel Carcillo saying Sutter Kicked him on the bench. Nothing else though.

The allegation was that Carcillo saw Sutter kick someone on the bench. Also that he heard Sutter berate Matt Greene.

https://abc7.com/sports/calgary-flam...2019/10391575/

[The Cobra]

Every large organization and all major sports teams have some skeletons in their closet.

Jerks ran large corporations. I've been involved in large businesses for about 40 years, and especially long ago many things happened which would get you fired today. That's simply what it was like back then. It's slowly evolved, and has evolved very quickly now, aa people are no longer afraid to speak out. There were jerks in senior positions in Calgary who needed to be weeded out during the years. The difference was that they didn't need Bettman to force them to do it.

Murray was likely a huge jerk who was very good at his job. People used to put up with that type of behaviour, but no more. It's no difference in office settings today. People are now held accountable for their day to day behaviour.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This whole situation comes across as a complete joke. So the Ducks, players and staff were well aware of Murray being a complete jerk (and possibly worse), yet they continued to employ him for years and even promoted him to GM?

Suddenly now is the time to dig into this to protect their employees and make things right, and for no other reason than the organization is fearing reprisal for further inaction now? GTHO Ducks. What a joke of a maneuver for no other reason than to try to save face.

I don’t think anyone is liking how long this has taken.

What are they supposed to do? Continue to do nothing so they don’t appear to be “saving face?” This is better than letting it perpetuate for fear of backlash. That’s the whole problem.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Every large organization and all major sports teams have some skeletons in their closet.

Jerks ran large corporations. I've been involved in large businesses for about 40 years, and especially long ago many things happened which would get you fired today. That's simply what it was like back then. It's slowly evolved, and has evolved very quickly now, aa people are no longer afraid to speak out. There were jerks in senior positions in Calgary who needed to be weeded out during the years. The difference was that they didn't need Bettman to force them to do it.

Murray was likely a huge jerk who was very good at his job. People used to put up with that type of behaviour, but no more. It's no difference in office settings today. People are now held accountable for their day to day behaviour.

I think one of the primary issues is that Hockey is very incestuous.

Players become coaches, who then become managers, who then become GMs who then bounce around from team to team in various positions.

Etc, ad nauseum.

There is very little in terms of 'outside blood' with experience, managerial experience, outside of Hockey.

So in a manner of speaking this is all they know. So they're doing things the only way they understand that they should be done.

All the talk of an 'Old Boys Club' well it very much is. And thats one of the primary problems with those types of organizations is that there is pressure to maintain the status quo as opposed to there being pressure to change, if they even know what to change to.

Its almost remarkably different when you can tell someone has more experience than 'just hockey.'

[yourbestfriend]

Too many perfect people in this thread, the hypocrisy is hilarious. You start talking about toxicity in hockey, but don’t want to talk about yourselves. Most of the people on this forum, if put into that same situation with the same pressure coming from all directions, would act in a very similar manner. Just go take a look at the “Brad Treliving Needs to be fired”, “Tre’s UFA Signing”, or any GDT. Calling for people to lose their jobs, calling out players and coaches for sucking and being overpaid. It's probably the same stuff Bob Murray was saying. If you as fans and stakeholders watching games at home who have little to nothing invested in the team can get that emotional and attached, how much pressure do you think people inside the organization feel, let alone the GM?

This is not to absolve Bob Murray of any responsibility for the way he acted, but I think adding some context to the situation is important in understanding why someone will act the way they did. Will he get fired... probably. But imo personality’s like his, maybe not to his extent, will always be in pro hockey. If you disagree, kindly have a review of your own posting history

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think one of the primary issues is that Hockey is very incestuous.

Players become coaches, who then become managers, who then become GMs who then bounce around from team to team in various positions.

Etc, ad nauseum.

There is very little in terms of 'outside blood' with experience, managerial experience, outside of Hockey.

So in a manner of speaking this is all they know. So they're doing things the only way they understand that they should be done.

All the talk of an 'Old Boys Club' well it very much is. And thats one of the primary problems with those types of organizations is that there is pressure to maintain the status quo as opposed to there being pressure to change, if they even know what to change to.

Its almost remarkably different when you can tell someone has more experience than 'just hockey.'

That is correct. But teams are starting to hire from, and be managed by, people from outside the hockey world. It's part of the reason why teams are starting to weed out the abusers who have been hidden for years behind the status quo.

[RyZ]

We have a board full of people who arent shy to openly wish injury, illness and death upon people with different ideas acting like high and mighty moral arbiters over an old man who was a "mean" boss (not criminal, just mean). You can hear the high horses from the other side of the country over here.

I'd be willing to bet the skeletons in the closets of many of CPs moral elite would make Bob Murray blush. Dont worry, your times are all coming too.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Too many perfect people in this thread, the hypocrisy is hilarious. You start talking about toxicity in hockey, but don’t want to talk about yourselves. Most of the people on this forum, if put into that same situation with the same pressure coming from all directions, would act in a very similar manner. Just go take a look at the “Brad Treliving Needs to be fired”, “Tre’s UFA Signing”, or any GDT. Calling for people to lose their jobs, calling out players and coaches for sucking and being overpaid. It's probably the same stuff Bob Murray was saying. If you as fans and stakeholders watching games at home who have little to nothing invested in the team can get that emotional and attached, how much pressure do you think people inside the organization feel, let alone the GM?

This is not to absolve Bob Murray of any responsibility for the way he acted, but I think adding some context to the situation is important in understanding why someone will act the way they did. Will he get fired... probably. But imo personality’s like his, maybe not to his extent, will always be in pro hockey. If you disagree, kindly have a review of your own posting history

Arguing with people on the internet, acting like a hothead and being a generally uneducated fly by the seat of your pants impatient fan has precisely nothing to do with how real people act in their very real jobs in the nhl.

Are some people on CP probably jerks in real life, just like they are on CP? Sure. But nobody on CP is texting me at home calling me a piece of #### when make a bad post or threatening Zamler for not posting the Janet gif quick enough after a in.

And when crazy behaviour like that does happen on CP, people get banned pretty damn quick.

[shogged]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Arguing with people on the internet, acting like a hothead and being a generally uneducated fly by the seat of your pants impatient fan has precisely nothing to do with how real people act in their very real jobs in the nhl.

Are some people on CP probably jerks in real life, just like they are on CP? Sure. But nobody on CP is texting me at home calling me a piece of #### when make a bad post or threatening Zamler for not posting the Janet gif quick enough after a in.

And when crazy behaviour like that does happen on CP, people get banned pretty damn quick.

Well that’s only because you haven’t given me your number yet