[News] Monahan knows what's on the line this season: 'I have a lot to prove'

[Bingo]

If the Flames are forcing players to play when they shouldn't there is an issue.

If the Flames aren't doing enough to pull players that shouldn't be playing but insist that they play there's an issue.

But if the team (doctors) and the player are making decisions based on making things worse, pain threshold, and effectiveness on the ice vs a replacement than there isn't really an issue here in my mind.

I won't pretend to know which case it is.

[Robo]

Since game 6 of the season? why TF would they keep playing him

[bubbsy]

I haven't liked the decision to put gaudreau on the Lindholm line to start, and though monahan hasn't looked great offensively in the first 2 games, I also don't like him being demoted to the 4th line.

Need to give monahan a fair shot at rebuilding his offensive game and confidence. Playing with a guy like lucic is not the answer.

[NewFan]

Boring Monahan: One day I couldn't walk normally and started to limp. But I remembered that I don't walk on the ice but I skate.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's Eric Francis but actually one of his better articles.

Would have been even better if he had said a mea culpa for his own attack on Monahan after the one season where he had multiple injuries requiring surgery.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I don't understand this kind of mentality. How exactly is it hard to ignore the poor play of an athlete with a hip that literally locks up every time he takes a faceoff? It's not difficult for me at all, in fact it literally explains WHY he wasn't playing well.

Maybe you don't understand because you forgot about the 2019-20 season that was the beginning of his downward trajectory, not last season.

[TheSquatch]

I see a lot of ramming things together in this thread, I will try to separate/unpack just a little.

There's a few things that the Monahan detractors see and have always seen: Namely, he's not especially mobile, he's not especially defensively savvy, and he's not in any way a physical player, offensively or defensively. He's not especially engaged - he's never angry, never really plays with any kind of "edge" to his game. These are the negatives.

The positives that even the biggest Monahan hater can surely see are that he's had (when healthy) an uncanny knack for finding a postage-stamp sized bit of ice, and is able to score from it when the puck gets to him. His nickname of "The Garbageman" is accurate, he shovels in a lot of garbage (and more, he really can find tiny holes in goalies and put the puck there). He's a decent possession guy, not a bad passer, and recently his faceoff game has improved a lot, he's worked hard.

His commitment, playing injured basically every year, no one can doubt.

But I see these things run together - If someone says "Monahan is soft" the answer is "He plays through pain that would kill a lesser man!" but while that's true, it's not related to the "soft". Monahan is "soft" to play against, he doesn't dish out any physical punishment, no one is worried about getting knocked around by him.

So we can see some strange stuff - he cares enough about playing to do so even really beat up. And yet his "intangibles", the fire-in-the-belly hate-to-lose kind of stuff, he doesn't bring much of. He'll crawl through broken glass to put on his uniform, but he won't ever make an open ice hit, or deliver any kind of on ice retribution.

He's a scorer. But he's slow.

I see all kinds of weird juxtapositions in his game, it's hard to quantify.

How many teams would Monahan be the 1C on if traded to? None of the top teams in the league, that's for sure.

I hope he can get healthy and pot 20 again this year, but that's all I hope for him, I don't think Sutter's going to turn Monahan into a fast 200 foot do-all guy. He just isn't that guy.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The question, assuming all other issues are dealt with is whether he’s better or worse than a potential replacement, who would be Gawdin or Ruzicka.

IMO the decision is:

A. Is his injury going to be worse with further play. If yes, pull him out.
B. If no, then ask whether it’s reasonable to have him play through whatever level of pain is involved. If no, then pull him out.
C. If he can handle the pain and it’s not going to make his injury worse, is he better than whoever would take his place on the roster? If there’s no one better, you would normally keep him in until there’s no reason to do so.

I'm not saying the Flames were putting his health at risk. I presume if he was playing, it wasn't compromising his long term health. I take issue if his playing through it and not getting shut down for the season delayed surgery from taking place, thereby putting his health for this season in question.

This article, I think rightly, puts the asset management in question, based on his being injured in game SIX(!) last season.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I haven't liked the decision to put gaudreau on the Lindholm line to start, and though monahan hasn't looked great offensively in the first 2 games, I also don't like him being demoted to the 4th line.

Need to give monahan a fair shot at rebuilding his offensive game and confidence. Playing with a guy like lucic is not the answer.

I hear this but he is getting PP1 minutes (at least up until now). That's a good place for him to show his offense is returning. If he can't do it there, it won't happen 5v5 IMO.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If injured players didn't play in the playoffs we would be watching AHL playoffs with NHL unis

Every team has multiple surgeries to schedule the day they are eliminated

I get your point, but how many playoff games has Monahan played last year? How about Tanev? perhaps some of the games against Vancouver during the playoffs count as playoffs...

In all seriousness though, Daryl is still talking about easing guys like Monahan in. Perhaps if he had the surgery done sooner he would've been up to speed already. Maybe then you get to play him in 4-5 preseason games instead of 2. Unless easing guys in is just a way for Sutter to shield players from some of the criticism.

That said, I'm not a doctor, and I have to believe that the organization did what they thought was best for the player and not for the team. That's because, I would have a very hard time cheering for an organization that put themselves ahead of a player's health(*cough* Buffalo *cough*).

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's Eric Francis but actually one of his better articles.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...son-lot-prove/



But Monahan is soft

Honestly I have more questions for our training staff allowing him to play on that hip to close last season.

To be honest, it's completely idiotic that he would do that and obviously downplay how much it was affecting his play and ultimately the team's performance on the ice last year. This isn't on the team it's on Monahan.

If you want to argue about his "softness" it's not something your going to win by pointing to playing through injuries like this. You're soft when you play gutless hockey and bail out on plays like he did last game, the first game and a trainwreck of games in past seasons when he wasn't injured. He's soft as butter and on the decline big time.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m just talking about saying “yeah, you look great” to the mirror.

Oh. yeah, you're definitely telling major lies!

[CGY12]

This is another strike on BT. Way to many to keep track of now. First he doesn't realize Monahan isn't a #1 centre on a (cup contending team), then he doesn't put a stop this type of stupid behaviour of playing when you can't even bend down, to only put his value deeper in the pooper. I really can't stand our GM.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You're soft when you play gutless hockey and bail out on plays like he did last game, the first game and a trainwreck of games in past seasons when he wasn't injured. He's soft as butter and on the decline big time.

Thing is calling him gutless is BS.

Sure Monahan is not physical, and he doesn't dish out punishment, but that doesn't mean he's gutless or soft.

You're soft if you avoid contact and don't go to the dirty areas of the ice, but that's not Monahan at all.

Monahan always goes to the dirty areas of the ice and takes punishment, he's been the net front guy that gets slashed and crosschecked on this team for years, and it's a big part of why he's injured all the time.

What play did he bail out on last game? They play he was flat footed and then got beat by the other team's forward, not sure how he bailed out there.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The question, assuming all other issues are dealt with is whether he’s better or worse than a potential replacement, who would be Gawdin or Ruzicka.

IMO the decision is:

A. Is his injury going to be worse with further play. If yes, pull him out.
B. If no, then ask whether it’s reasonable to have him play through whatever level of pain is involved. If no, then pull him out.
C. If he can handle the pain and it’s not going to make his injury worse, is he better than whoever would take his place on the roster? If there’s no one better, you would normally keep him in until there’s no reason to do so.

The replacement was Sam Bennett, not Gawdin or Ruzicka

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

As with Bennett I find Monahan a likeable player and I am pulling for him. I really hope he can get the arrow pointing back up again but to me he looks like he's rounding into a decent 3rd line center . It's tough to take when you consider where he started but it's hard to ignore his play over the past few seasons with or without injury.

You do you, man. Maybe next season, Monahan's progression will be closer to completion to being a decent 3rd liner!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The replacement was Sam Bennett, not Gawdin or Ruzicka

Well Sam had been traded by the time they knew they were out. And Sutter didn’t seem to agree.

[Jason14h]

I remember Monahan sitting a game injured and we lost to the Oilers 7-0(1?) last year

It’s like none of you have ever been part of a team . He knows the team needs him . He gets paid very well to be a leader and top player . He isn’t going to sit out u less he is force too

He was sat the minute the Flames were out of the playoffs

He’s an adult making adult decisions . “Think about his long term health “ - no athlete is going to have good long term health .

I have played men’s hockey playoffs with broken bones and severally torn groins that required being worked on before the game . And I play in a garbage division and am 40. Winners want and demand to play. Know why is more painful - watching your team loose while you can’t help them

Many people spend every day with a bad hip waiting for surgery and other medical procedures and are in extreme pain everyday

If anything I expect professional athletes to play through pain more then other members of our society going to their jobs in discomfort

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

I see a lot of ramming things together in this thread, I will try to separate/unpack just a little.

There's a few things that the Monahan detractors see and have always seen: Namely, he's not especially mobile, he's not especially defensively savvy, and he's not in any way a physical player, offensively or defensively. He's not especially engaged - he's never angry, never really plays with any kind of "edge" to his game. These are the negatives.

The positives that even the biggest Monahan hater can surely see are that he's had (when healthy) an uncanny knack for finding a postage-stamp sized bit of ice, and is able to score from it when the puck gets to him. His nickname of "The Garbageman" is accurate, he shovels in a lot of garbage (and more, he really can find tiny holes in goalies and put the puck there). He's a decent possession guy, not a bad passer, and recently his faceoff game has improved a lot, he's worked hard.

His commitment, playing injured basically every year, no one can doubt.

But I see these things run together - If someone says "Monahan is soft" the answer is "He plays through pain that would kill a lesser man!" but while that's true, it's not related to the "soft". Monahan is "soft" to play against, he doesn't dish out any physical punishment, no one is worried about getting knocked around by him.

So we can see some strange stuff - he cares enough about playing to do so even really beat up. And yet his "intangibles", the fire-in-the-belly hate-to-lose kind of stuff, he doesn't bring much of. He'll crawl through broken glass to put on his uniform, but he won't ever make an open ice hit, or deliver any kind of on ice retribution.

He's a scorer. But he's slow.

I see all kinds of weird juxtapositions in his game, it's hard to quantify.

How many teams would Monahan be the 1C on if traded to? None of the top teams in the league, that's for sure.

I hope he can get healthy and pot 20 again this year, but that's all I hope for him, I don't think Sutter's going to turn Monahan into a fast 200 foot do-all guy. He just isn't that guy.

This is the most accurate and fair assessment I've read of Monahan recently; cuts through the biases on both sides. Well said.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

To be honest, it's completely idiotic that he would do that and obviously downplay how much it was affecting his play and ultimately the team's performance on the ice last year. This isn't on the team it's on Monahan.

If you want to argue about his "softness" it's not something your going to win by pointing to playing through injuries like this. You're soft when you play gutless hockey and bail out on plays like he did last game, the first game and a trainwreck of games in past seasons when he wasn't injured. He's soft as butter and on the decline big time.

Jeez, thought for a second you were talking about JG.