[News] Flames opening day roster set - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Bingo · 10-11-2021, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I remembered a few years ago we had somewhat balanced 3-4 lines. You are right that the bottom lines won’t completely bail out a team but when your top lines are not the best, it would help if the bottom lines can chip in once in awhile. This may happen when Zary, Pelletier and Coronato are ready but I don’t see it on the current team. It’s not really a complaint, just an observation/opinion.

I don't think the Flames have a true top talent ... they have some excellent secondary players and with that you have to hope they can get it done.

Just don't see the fourth line as the logical target for criticism.

Honestly I think this comes down to the six or seven guys playing defense and whether or not they can transition the puck to the team's deeper set of forwards this year.

If they can the forwards and goaltending is good enough to make them a pretty good hockey team.

red sky · 10-11-2021, 09:51 AM

Negativity? Hard not to with more of the same this year. Perhaps Sutter can extract some more compete but this will come down to the core that has proven to falter at the signs of adversity.

Bingo · 10-11-2021, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red sky

Negativity? Hard not to with more of the same this year. Perhaps Sutter can extract some more compete but this will come down to the core that has proven to falter at the signs of adversity.

Honestly I've always understood the logic in negativity. Don't think any of us love this team or where it's going.

It's just the enjoyment of being negative that bewilders me.

I guess I keep expecting the understanding of what we have to settle in and then just move on with some hope and try and enjoy the season.

Likely not happening.

bubbsy · 10-11-2021, 10:10 AM

I feel a lot better about our forwards this season than last. There's more of an identity, especially in the bottom 6. The bottom line isn't going to score much, but it could be an effective useful line. If guys like monahan, gaudreau, tkachuk, Lindholm play to their career averages, plus throw in guys who can provide some more positive scoring depth in Coleman, mangiapane, Dube, it could be a good enough group.

Defensively, who knows. There isn't a dependable #1/2 in there with Giordano gone. I thought valimaki was brutal in my limited viewing this preseason. Stings less with kylington coming in and playing the way I hoped valimaki would.

Gudrabson/zadorov seem a bit redundant to me. I would be ok with either, but not sure an nhl level defence carries both in their everyday 6 man dcore.

Of course sutter is the great equalizer. Truth be told, I have no idea of whether this roster and coaching style will be effective enough to get into the playoffs. However, if they do,I really do think they are far better equipped to not get completely outclassed come spring either.

My biggest fear is how gaudreau, tkachuk and the trade deadline are handled should the flames be +/- a few points of a playoff spot.

red sky · 10-11-2021, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Honestly I've always understood the logic in negativity. Don't think any of us love this team or where it's going.

It's just the enjoyment of being negative that bewilders me.

I guess I keep expecting the understanding of what we have to settle in and then just move on with some hope and try and enjoy the season.

Likely not happening.

No one is forced to watch. If folks don't enjoy it then there is a simple solution. I am intrigued to see a few story lines and will be tuning in but if the Flames struggle early and the product is not entertaining then I will just do something different with my time.

Bingo · 10-11-2021, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red sky

No one is forced to watch. If folks don't enjoy it then there is a simple solution. I am intrigued to see a few story lines and will be tuning in but if the Flames struggle early and the product is not entertaining then I will just do something different with my time.

Totally up to you.

No one is making anyone watch. No one is making any one log into this site and talk about it either.

People choose to log in and be down on pretty much everything.

that's what I don't get.

Teroy · 10-11-2021, 10:37 AM

I'm looking forward to the season. Observing the development of Mang, Dube, Gawdin, Kylington, Valimaki and seeing the re-emergence of Monahan will make it enjoyable. Been on boards since day 1. Every year is an unknown. It only costs me $200 to watch all the Flames games on Centre Ice. Wouldn't miss it for anything. All the best to Sutter and the guys.

Calgary4LIfe · 10-11-2021, 10:42 AM

I know one of my biggest question marks heading into the season was the backup goaltending. I don't think you can ride Markstrom - he is often injured, and this was a huge concern of mine.

Vladar has been great. Yes, he has let in a couple of soft ones, but you definitely expect that especially in preseason. For a non-starter, he has been excellent and really looks to be a bona fide backup with some potential beyond that. I am happy with him. Have some more options in the organization as well for a game here and there without thinking it will be an automatic loss as well. Goaltending is legitimately deeper IMO than it has ever been in the history of the franchise - bold claim I know, but that's what I think. Top end is at least top 3 - Vernon won a cup so tough to dispute him, Kipper was simply amazing - I think Markstrom may end up as the third best ever in Calgary, and that's good enough to win a cup with IMO. You can't ask for more than 'good enough to win a cup with'.

I have the Flames winning the division this year. I think they have taken a step back on D this year, but there is enough young players who may rise to the occasion to compensate there. Kylington sure has shown more than he has in the past, for instance. I still see it as the biggest question mark by far as I worry about how it will affect the transition, which affects the overall 'speed' of how the Flames play, and will lead to less offence. Tough to judge that in preseason, and we probably won't be able to tell until games 15 or 20, but hopefully this has been an overblown worry of mine. Vastly more physical now, however. Who was the last big threat on the blueline for the Flames in physicality? Sarich? I must be having a brain fart right now, but I think it was Sarich. Now you have Zadorov blowing guys up, and though nobody seems to like him much, I am still thinking Gudbranson will be giving this team solid minutes on the bottom pairing while also keeping the other team more honest out there. This is the best chance for the young players to show that they can move up the lineup though - this team absolutely needs strong puckmovers to step up.

Forwards - love it. Honestly love it. Fast, skilled, defensively responsible. They will be hard to play against. Best top 6 I have seen. I think Coleman is going to be a revelation this year for a lot of people. Two legitimate scoring lines + a third line that can check and defend as well as any team in the league. Backlund + Pitlick is going to transition against. Dube is going to really learn how to be a solid 2-way player on this line too.

I know a lot of people liked Ryan here. I hated the signing originally, and I hated him for a while as I thought he was sucking in Calgary at first (and he was). However, something eventually clicked and he was a really strong 2-way player, and I loved him. However, I didn't love him last season. I think he isn't an effective 4th liner. I like the look of the 4th line a lot more this year than last.

Vegas is taking a step back this year IMO. I think Calgary will catch them. Edmonton is built on a shaky foundation IMO - goaltending and defence. With the way McDavid seems intent on continuing being reckless, he is going to be out with a long injury one of these seasons again too, and that's crippling for them. Vancouver won't be as bad as last season.. but they will be bad. I think Seattle will be middle-of-the-pack - a bubble team. The California teams all suck at the moment. I really think that something has to go very wrong for the Flames not to make the playoffs, and I do think they are poised to be divisional champs this year.

Even looking at the Central, who is a contender there? I see Colorado and Colorado only. The Jets? They are fighting with the Blues for the 2nd best team, and neither of them are great right now. Chicago is doing its' thing rebuilding I guess.. sort of. Not a contender anyway, though I am sure they will be better. Nashville is rebuilding by the looks of it. Point is, there may be 4 teams from each division in the playoffs this year, as they only have one really good team, a few average teams, and some teams that are either rebuilding or should be rebuilding (hello Minny with your high cap hits of players not playing for you any longer).

I like the Flames' chances this year of not only getting into the playoffs, but making a bit of noise. Contenders? No, but that's ok. I only have one contender in the west, and that's Colorado, and I think the Flames are better than most teams right now. If Sutter can get this defence to work well, I think this team will really surprise people.

They are going to be one of the toughest teams to score on, however, and the least liked team to play against. That does count for something.

Heavy Jack · 10-11-2021, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Totally up to you.

No one is making anyone watch. No one is making any one log into this site and talk about it either.

People choose to log in and be down on pretty much everything.

that's what I don't get.

I think honestly a lot of it can be attributed to the pandemic as there’s been a noticeable uptick in the pessimism here for sure. People have turned to things like the fandom they have for their team more than ever during this pandemic and unfortunately for the flames and their fans the performance over the two pandemic seasons for the flames was extremely frustrating so I think this has amplified the current feelings towards the team from fans and it’s totally understandable. There’s not too much to be excited about in life for most right now, it’s basically been work then home for the majority so when you try to escape the mundane to get only more mundane it’s frustrating. Hopefully Sutter can turn this team around and get the most out of them which I do believe he can.

Jacks · 10-11-2021, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Totally up to you.

No one is making anyone watch. No one is making any one log into this site and talk about it either.

People choose to log in and be down on pretty much everything.

that's what I don't get.

It's possible to be a life long Flames fan and not be happy with the make up or direction of the team. We can hope for better.

GioforPM · 10-11-2021, 10:51 AM

This is obviously a Sutter lineup and it will be a test of Sutter hockey.

Bingo · 10-11-2021, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacks

It's possible to be a life long Flames fan and not be happy with the make up or direction of the team. We can hope for better.

Why do people keep suggesting I'm stopping them from doing something.

I don't like the core.

I don't think this team is built to evolve and move up the standings.

But I'm not going to log into a final roster topic on a website and smugly say they suck when we've all known what the final roster would be from late July.

What's the point?

Lanny_McDonald · 10-11-2021, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Honestly I've always understood the logic in negativity. Don't think any of us love this team or where it's going.

It's just the enjoyment of being negative that bewilders me.

I guess I keep expecting the understanding of what we have to settle in and then just move on with some hope and try and enjoy the season.

Likely not happening.

No one gets enjoyment out of the negativity that surrounds this team. No one. But you have to understand that people want to cheer for a winner, or at least a team that appears like they have potential of improvement and being better. When the team does nothing to address the most pressing issues facing the team, and the negatives keep piling up, the fanbase is going to go to the dark side. That is where the fans currently are, and for very good reasons.

Consider that the team has under-achieved with this same core for the past few seasons. It seems everyone knows we need to improve in this area, but nothing is done in this regard. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and dump a player just to shake up the organization and inject some new blood. People look at the top six and see the same guys, so expectations are going to be the same.

Next, the team has allowed important players on the blueline to leave without ay return in back-to-back years. Brodie and Giordano are both dynamic players that stand out in their ability to move the puck. That dynamic is sorely missing right now. I think Tanev was a great signing, but that glaring hole in the lineup is not replaced by Tanev. The blueline has become weaker and that is very evident in the play. How can anyone get excited about the loss of the very likeable Giordano and see him replaced with Gudbranson and Zadorov? These guys have to show they can shoulder that loss and improve the back end. It hasn't started out well.

Another issue that continues to plague this team is the revolving door of coaches. The fans are looking at wins and losses and want a coach that will generate more of the former than the later. It was obvious that Ward was not a great coach, but he had the team at .500 (11-11-2) when he was sacked, and the fans expected a lot more Sutter came in and the team didn't do much better, ending the season 15-16-1, thanks to the 4-1-0 finish against Ottawa and Vancouver to close out the season. Was this a good hire, or a retread, trying to recapture enthusiasm from a past time? This is still open to discussion, but all the "negatives" of the predicted Sutter return have surfaced. In is more size, but less speed. In are more "Sutter" type players, including retreads from his days in Los Angeles. At a time when the fans see teams that feature young fast players that move the puck quickly and generate offense off the rush, the Flames are standing out as an anachronism in the current game. The team makes it hard to get excited about the on ice product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Totally up to you.

No one is making anyone watch. No one is making any one log into this site and talk about it either.

People choose to log in and be down on pretty much everything.

that's what I don't get.

That's the mood of the fanbase. They want badly to cheer for something that gives them hope. This looks very much like the same lineup that has led to so much disappointment. You can try and talk up the changes made on the bottom line being an improvement, but the best players are the ones people look to, and they are the same. That is disheartening after hearing how aggressive the GM was going to be in trying to make change. All of this has been one let-down after another. This is why the mood of the fanbase is one of no hope and dwelling on the negative. Until something positive happens to shift the direction of the team, the fans will follow the same downward trajectory and bottom out along with the team they love. We all want to find something positive in this team, but the results just aren't there, and that's all the fans care about. Results.

the_only_turek_fan · 10-11-2021, 11:24 AM

A full year of Sutter and a healthy Markstrom.

I expect a lot of 3-2 games in both directions.

Bingo · 10-11-2021, 11:24 AM

Honestly ... don't have a problem with anything you said.

But a rational discussion about a hockey team isn't the type of negativity I'm talking about.

It's the drive by crap that gets old.

As I said this topic is announcing final cuts. We all know the roster, we've all known it since late July. But people see the need to jump into the final cut discussion with drive by roster sucks comments?

Seems juvenile.

Jacks · 10-11-2021, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Why do people keep suggesting I'm stopping them from doing something.

I don't like the core.

I don't think this team is built to evolve and move up the standings.

But I'm not going to log into a final roster topic on a website and smugly say they suck when we've all known what the final roster would be from late July.

What's the point?

I never smugly said they suck. You asked why people bother to watch or log into this site if they don't like the current team. It's possible to be a fan of the franchise and not be happy with the make up of the current team, the executives and the team direction.

Bingo · 10-11-2021, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacks

I never smugly said they suck. You asked why people bother to watch or log into this site if they don't like the current team. It's possible to be a fan of the franchise and not be happy with the make up of the current team, the executives and the team direction.

Do you honestly think this is all about you?

I never said Jacks is the guy that logged in and smugly said they suck.

And for sure you can. But how often can one change every topic into the same thing without growing tired of it?

Jacks · 10-11-2021, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Do you honestly think this is all about you?

I never said Jacks is the guy that logged in and smugly said they suck.

And for sure you can. But how often can one change every topic into the same thing without growing tired of it?

You replied to my post.
I haven't posted much lately, I've actually avoided most of the negativity.

Bingo · 10-11-2021, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacks

You replied to my post.
I haven't posted much lately, I've actually avoided most of the negativity.

I replied to red sky.

You replied to my reply.

dino7c · 10-11-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

I suggest some of you look at the bottom end of the other rosters in the Pacific division

Also don't forget there is another team in the NHL now...there is a whole team worth of players in the league that wouldn't be last year

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I feel a lot better about our forwards this season than last. There's more of an identity, especially in the bottom 6. The bottom line isn't going to score much, but it could be an effective useful line. If guys like monahan, gaudreau, tkachuk, Lindholm play to their career averages, plus throw in guys who can provide some more positive scoring depth in Coleman, mangiapane, Dube, it could be a good enough group.

Defensively, who knows. There isn't a dependable #1/2 in there with Giordano gone. I thought valimaki was brutal in my limited viewing this preseason. Stings less with kylington coming in and playing the way I hoped valimaki would.

Gudrabson/zadorov seem a bit redundant to me. I would be ok with either, but not sure an nhl level defence carries both in their everyday 6 man dcore.

Of course sutter is the great equalizer. Truth be told, I have no idea of whether this roster and coaching style will be effective enough to get into the playoffs. However, if they do,I really do think they are far better equipped to not get completely outclassed come spring either.

My biggest fear is how gaudreau, tkachuk and the trade deadline are handled should the flames be +/- a few points of a playoff spot.

An NHL level defence doesn't carry Gudbranson and Zadorov?...you might want to look around the league... specifically in the Flames division.

Zadorov played on the top pair of an NHL team last year with one less team in the league.

Plus they won't both play every game