Training Camp - Sept 23

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I think a lot of people will be eating crow re their comments on players with down years last year (Monahan especially). And while Gudbrandon is… not so good, he is still an upgrade over Nesterov.

Hope you’re right

[Toonage]

Trading Monahan right now while he's healthy is probably the best idea. Dude will break. This is the way.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Trading Monahan right now while he's healthy is probably the best idea. Dude will break. This is the way.

The guy must average 2 surgeries per offseason. He’s going to be crippled when he’s older.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I just don't see it. His positioning in his own zone isn't great and neither is his stick, and he flies the zone a bit. He's good at forechecking and dogged on puck control though, which are defence in a way.

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick is a line that could be very effective IMO.

I guess your eye test must be different then mine.

[Macho0978]

I’m pretty sure monahan has said he feels great at the start of camp almost every year. It’s how he feel by mid season that matters. I’m sure if he stays healthy he’ll be around 30 goals or more but the question is will he stay healthy?

If he does for 1 year there is no guarantee he will the following season. I’m hopeful for a big year but if it happens I’d still trade him just hope we get more.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I just don't see it. His positioning in his own zone isn't great and neither is his stick, and he flies the zone a bit. He's good at forechecking and dogged on puck control though, which are defence in a way.

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick is a line that could be very effective IMO.

When you dig into the numbers he isn't off the charts in preventative stats at all ... that's probably what you're seeing.

He is, however, massive in the old adage "the best defense is a good offence" because when he's on the ice the team generates a lot of shot attempts, shots, and scoring chances.

So he's not Guy Carboneau, but he drives the play.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Trading Monahan right now while he's healthy is probably the best idea. Dude will break. This is the way.

Trading someone coming off their worst season is a terrible idea

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm happy to be proven wrong. I like Mangiapane a lot - I just have never thought of defence as a strength area.

That said, analytically - why is he ranked like that? If it's overall shot suppression, maybe that has something to do with offensive play/forechecking?

I think your reply resonated with the eye test for me. I feel Mang is the best forechecker on the team but I'm not sure I'd consider him great in his own end. He's not bad, but there are other forwards that have a higher defensive impact on the Flames IMO.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

When you dig into the numbers he isn't off the charts in preventative stats at all ... that's probably what you're seeing.

He is, however, massive in the old adage "the best defense is a good offence" because when he's on the ice the team generates a lot of shot attempts, shots, and scoring chances.

So he's not Guy Carboneau, but he drives the play.

Yup. He keeps shots and chances against down by keeping the puck in the offensive zone.

Also for a winger he's strong at breaking up the play in the d-zone, but takes risks to try to do that which is why he may appear out of position at times.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mile

https://twitter.com/user/status/1441103422086782980

That tracks. Monahan looked great through the first half-dozen games last year.

[Samonadreau]

If Monahan stayed healthy he'd be a force, problem is you almost expect he plays through a significant injury for a large part of the season.

If he can stay healthy that changes the whole dynamics of the team and gives us 2 top lines.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I'm looking forward to breaking my Monahan jersey out of the closet again. I'm not giving up on him yet. I remember when people thought Backlund was too fragile to stay in the NHL.

Monahan's had bad luck with injuries, but he's as pure a sniper as any player on this team, and one of the better players in the league at finishing chances in close. If he's close to 100% he's going to do well.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That tracks. Monahan looked great through the first half-dozen games last year.

7 points if the first 5 games.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

So do we still want to trade Monahan for a 3rd line winger?

Yes, quick before he gets injured again.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Yes, quick before he gets injured again.

That's like saying because you flipped a coin 3 times and got heads that the next flip will be heads again. His injuries were unrelated to one another except for the fact that he takes a beating standing in front of the net. It's not like he's had to have surgery for the same shoulder 3 years in a row. There's no more reason to expect him to be injured than any other player.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Robbob

7 points if the first 5 games.

Four of which were even-strength, two of which were goals, and Monahan was on the scoreboard in each of those first five games.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

On top of having by far the best defensive impacts on the Flames, he's also projected to win the Selke (obviously won't because of name recognition and position) by one of the most respected names in analytics.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1438984912674099208

The day Mangiapane gets the recognition he deserves for his incredible impact will be a great day.

Which comes, hopefully, after he signs a long-term contract.

[SuperMatt18]

I had kind of forgotten that Monahan did have a great start to the season before he missed two games with an injury.

First 16 Games Prior to Missing Two Games

Games Played: 16
Corsi For: 50.1%
Goals For %: 60% (9 For, 6 Against)
xGF%: 53.5%
Goals: 2
Assists:10
Points: 12
PPG: 0.75 PPG

Those advanced stats and actual counting results are pretty good. Then he missed 2 games with an injury (Flames lost 2-1 and 7-1 to the Oilers back to back).

It was the next 15 games where the struggles really started once he came back from injury and his line was just ineffective at 5v5 and the line was getting outmatch from an analytics perspective.

Games Played: 15
Corsi For: 47.0%
Goals For %: 45.5% (5 For, 6 Against)
xGF%: 46.0%
Goals: 5
Assists:3
Points: 8
PPG: 0.53

Then his last 19 games before the end of the season were better from an Advanced Stat perspective under Sutter, but the offense dried out.

GP: 19
Corsi For: 51.6%
Goals For: 46.2% (6 For , 7 Against)
xGF%: 53.8%
Goals: 3
Assists: 5
Points: 8
PPG: 0.42 PPG

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

I guess your eye test must be different then mine.

Probably. As eye tests often are.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by Dont_trash_Dion

Que up the 40,000 + Armchair Head coaches! It’s day one of camp.

It's a refreshing change from the 40,000 + Armchair GMs!