Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2021 - Round 4

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I also voted for Vlader, but I think a lot of posters are sleeping on Kuznetsov. He was the youngest player in the NCAA in his draft year, and has already earned a pro contract in his draft+1 season. I think he is going to be very good, and I have him ahead of Kinnvall and well ahead of the beer-leaguer.

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Good choice in Kuznetsov. The votes will likely boil down to offensive output potential between Kinvall and Kuznetsov. It'd be a tight battle I think. I'm not sure where I'm going after the goalies yet.

[Robbob]

The last 18 months has been such a crap shoot and my mind is just all over the place trying to slot the players. A bunch of these kids I just don't know that much about to have a clear understanding on where they will rank. It will be interesting to look back in 3 or so years to see where these kids end up.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

This group for me

Mackey, Kinvall, Kuznetsov, Vladar, Wolf, Stromgren

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

This group for me

Mackey, Kinvall, Kuznetsov, Vladar, Wolf, Stromgren

Exact group for me, just different order

[AC]

^ Same grouping plus Ruzicka for me.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

1) appeal to authority
2) a year ago is a long time when talking about prospects

For me, Vladar has shown that he is NHL-ready, and an NHL-ready goalie is a valuable asset.

I have high hopes for Wolf, but the chances of him becoming an NHL goalie are still fairly remote.

Vladar it is.

I don't think you have to be appealing to authority to be checking a neutral source to get a handle on prospect comparisons.

I've never heard of the guy.

So Wheeler, whether you like him or not has the Flames ranked 20th, and the Bruins ranked 31st. Wolf ranked 5th and Vlader ranked 11th.

that was my research.

Happy to have others make other choices differently.

But it's certainly not an appeal to authority.

[FlamesAddiction]

I picked Little Z. Not a banner year for him in the AHL, but not too many 19 year olds even play in the AHL. He also had 3 points in 6 games in the KHL, again being only 19.

But I think I am sold on Vladar now and will probably change my vote next round. He will be 24 by the time the season starts, which in my mind, puts him right at the edge of being in consideration. His stats in the minors and Europe are great. The NHL stats, not great, but also a really small sample size.

[AC]

^ If you eliminate the one blow out loss that skews his stats, his NHL performance last season was 2-1-1, 9 goals against on 116 shots, .922 SV%.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think you have to be appealing to authority to be checking a neutral source to get a handle on prospect comparisons.

I've never heard of the guy.

So Wheeler, whether you like him or not has the Flames ranked 20th, and the Bruins ranked 31st. Wolf ranked 5th and Vlader ranked 11th.

that was my research.

Happy to have others make other choices differently.

But it's certainly not an appeal to authority.

Then why quote him? Anyway, whatever - all good.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Then why quote him? Anyway, whatever - all good.

No I meant the goaltender.

That's why I looked at a prospect ranking.

[TheIronMaiden]

Kinnval for me, a Right shot D man with a scoring pedigree in the SHL. He has a legit chance at being a weapon on the point this season.

[TheScorpion]

My tiers at the top:

Zary / Coronato
—
Wolf / Pelletier
—
Phillips / Vladar / Kuznetsov / Stromgren / Mackey / Kinnvall
—
Pettersen / Francis / Pospisil / Ruzicka / Heineman
—
Zavgorodniy / Poirier / Kerins

[Lanny_McDonald]

My top 20, with tiers.

Zary, Coronato, Pelletier
-
Vlader, Wolf, Kuznetsov, Kinnvall, Heineman
-
Poirier, Stromgren, Huckins
-
Solovyov, Whynot, Jordan, Ruzicka, Chechelev, Nikolaev, Parsons, Tuulola, Francis

Only one midget, because size matters on a Darryl Sutter team moving forward.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

My tiers at the top:

Zary / Coronato
—
Wolf / Pelletier
—
Phillips / Vladar / Kuznetsov / Stromgren / Mackey / Kinnvall
—
Pettersen / Francis / Pospisil / Ruzicka / Heineman
—
Zavgorodniy / Poirier / Kerins

Good one. I’d move Phillips down one but I also know you watch him in person and really like him. I’m skeptical.

Mackey and Vladar might deserve their own tier as I expect they have NHL jobs to lose.

Wish I knew where to put Heineman. He is a second round pick but as some might say, I guess that fact is just an appeal to authority.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

My tiers at the top:

Zary / Coronato
—
Wolf / Pelletier
—
Phillips / Vladar / Kuznetsov / Stromgren / Mackey / Kinnvall
—
Pettersen / Francis / Pospisil / Ruzicka / Heineman
—
Zavgorodniy / Poirier / Kerins

What is it that has you putting Pelletier definitively in the tier below Zary? Anything specific?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Life isn't fair. So Mackey went one development path and another guy went another. They still merge back at this point of competing for jobs and positions. Phillips at 23 is probably receiving his last contract with the Flames, so will be out of the system at 24. If you aren't playing in the NHL by time you're 25, the potential for you to play in the NHL after that point is pretty miniscule. Definitely shouldn't be a player considered a top prospect, an probably not a prospect of any sort. The player has achieved tweener status IMO. He's an RFA with arbitration rights, which also means this will be his last contract as a Flame, if he doesn't stick and earn a long-term deal before the end of this term. I also did say he was on the same level as Kirkland, just that they are the same age and have aged out of the prospect range. Mackey could be a decent bottom pair defender, but he has to prove that this camp.

How do you even hit submit on this stuff?

Life isn't fair? Thanks chief, had no idea.

Mackey was a highly sought after college UFA that was signed literally 17 months ago.

That matter when assessing development time, especially when he's played pro hockey since and adjusted well to the NHL level.

It's not a simple line by age, as they all get there in different ways.

And I'm certainly not suggesting he's made it or he's a star. Just saying guys that have only been with the team for a year and a half through a pandemic and has seen NHL teams is very much a prospect.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Went with Wolf.

He’s been nothing but stellar since drafted by Calgary. Should be interesting to see how he does in Stockton, but I hope he turns out to be a legitimate blue chipper for us.

[Enoch Root]

My tiers:

1) Pelletier, Zary, Coronato (high floor 1st rounders)

2) Vladar, Wolf (exciting goalies)

3) Kusnetsov, Mackey (solid bets on D)

then a whole bunch of guys with high ceiling potential:
Poirier, Kinvall, Heineman, Stromgren, Jordan, Whynot, Beck, Francis

can never decide where Ruzicka, Gawdin and Phillips should fit

[Enoch Root]

oh, and forgot Huckins, he has to be in that group as well

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

How do you even hit submit on this stuff?

Back at you chief. Some real rocket surgeon level thinking in your response and complete dismissal of the reality teams and players face.

Mackey was a highly sought after college UFA that was signed literally 17 months ago.

That was 17 months ago. The clock didn't stop ticking because of COVID.
It's all about investment and whether a player is going to make that investment bear fruit. And yes, age matters. The Flames made him a deal for his first contract where he got benefit because they believed he was further along in his development because of his age and the number of years he played in college. His development, like so many other players, has been hurt by COVID, but that doesn't change the expectations or the time table. The Flames only own the player's rights for so long, so they have to be sure they have a player on their hands. He's currently an RFA with arbitration rights, so he's one contract from being a UFA. That means he is what he is. Not many players are still considered "prospects" by time they have arbitration rights. The timeline and age matters.

That matter when assessing development time, especially when he's played pro hockey since and adjusted well to the NHL level.

It's not a simple line by age, as they all get there in different ways.

Contract status says otherwise.

And I'm certainly not suggesting he's made it or he's a star. Just saying guys that have only been with the team for a year and a half through a pandemic and has seen NHL teams is very much a prospect.

He's no longer a prospect because the team is being forced into a long-term contract decision on him right now. They don't get to consider future development time, they are making a decision on a contract that will carry him through to UFA status. Yelesin and Lerby are in the same situations, both of them having limited time during a pandemic, and both of them suffering the same outcome. Neither of them should be considered prospects any more as well. The clock doesn't stop for anyone, regardless of their circumstance. It's business, that all it is.

BTW, I fully expect Mackey to be a Flame this winter. I expect he'll be a 6-8 defenseman and that will be his lot going forward. You may not think that is fair, but it is what is. Neither of us can change the way the league works, the expectations that teams have, and the economics of the game.