Rumor: Management change

[DeluxeMoustache]

In my opinion, it was a mistake to hire someone to learn on the job.

And a GM shouldn’t get a do over after pissing away 7 years and having the team perform worse than the first year when he inherited a blown up team with zero expectations

To me it’s a job best done by somebody who is good at it

This rumour post got my hopes up. *sigh*

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What building teams takes, is patience and an emphasis on drafting.

Treliving has been impatient and traded countless draft picks on replacement level players who wouldn't be here even 3 years later (Hamonic, Lazar, Elliott, Smith, Fantenberg, Forbort, Gustavsson). He's wasted a ton of cap space on UFA veterans. He's taken his highest-ever draft pick and constructed roster-after-roster in which that player would be buried, and never able to log a twenty minute ice time game, culminating in losing a 4th overall pick for two seconds, only to see him break out the minute he gets an opportunity.

That is simply not how you build a contending team. It's how you build a treadmill team. Which is exactly what Malony and Treliving have build whether it's in Arizona or Calgary.

I’d be all for changing the GM if I thought the new guy would have the blessing of ownership to embark on a patient rebuild. I do not believe that’s the case. So the choice is between Treliving and some new guy who would be given the same marching orders to stay competitive and hope to go on a run.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’d be all for changing the GM if I thought the new guy would have the blessing of ownership to embark on a patient rebuild. I do not believe that’s the case. So the choice is between Treliving and some new guy who would be given the same marching orders to stay competitive and hope to go on a run.

The weird part about the order from the ownership to sell draft picks to become competitive is that it only came into effect when Brad was here. I think Darryl traded one first round pick in 9 years. And the order to be competitive and not build for the future seems to come and go. In 2015 when the Flames were in a playoff hunt ownership was fine with trading Glencross. But then they changed their mind over the coming years and ordered Brad to be competitive and not build for the future.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’d be all for changing the GM if I thought the new guy would have the blessing of ownership to embark on a patient rebuild. I do not believe that’s the case. So the choice is between Treliving and some new guy who would be given the same marching orders to stay competitive and hope to go on a run.

But then again Treliving
- traded picks for Hamonic
- signed Tkachuk to a contract with a bad QO
- failed to get value out of the super complicated Bennett asset
- signed James Neal, who had bounced around from team to team, to term
- paid Rasmus early, unnecessarily
- traded picks for goalies he didn’t keep around
- paid Markstrom 6x6 for the worst results of any goalie since Hiller
- let Brodie walk for nothing while telling him to just wait until he was done with Markstrom
- accumulated 6 Cs while not getting a top line RW
- signed Forbort, Fantenberg etc. in years where the top 4 was stronger and there was room to develop bottom pair D
- signed Simon, Nordstrom
- signed three previously unproven / unsuccessful coaches
etc.

There was room to have done a lot better with the same ‘marching orders’

[kyuss275]

The title of this thread should be changed. This is not a rumour this is his own opinion. He also says if they don’t change gm then they should trade one of Johnny or Mony .

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The weird part about the order from the ownership to sell draft picks to become competitive is that it only came into effect when Brad was here. I think Darryl traded one first round pick in 9 years. And the order to be competitive and not build for the future seems to come and go. In 2015 when the Flames were in a playoff hunt ownership was fine with trading Glencross. But then they changed their mind over the coming years and ordered Brad to be competitive and not build for the future.

He also traded 6 seconds though (if my counting is accurate).
He also traded a 1st for Cammy and then got a later one back from Tanguay - which was a downgrade I think of 8 spots.
He used the draft to re-stock the team for sure.
He also traded younger players (Dion, Kobasew, Lombardi) to try and compete.

Some of the trades he made with picks:
- 2nd for Jordan Leopold (2nd time round) who was then included for the rights to Bouw
- 1st included in the Jokinen deal (ended up being the 13th overall pick)
- 2nd included to dump Wayne Primeau (in the Stuart deal) in a deal that he got Stralman back - but then dumped him too (for a 3rd)
- 3rd for Steve Staios
- He traded a pick for Bourque but I can't find what round (though I would also say that was a very good deal)

Sutter used picks and futures to try and win now just like Brad does. And he also never got out of the 1st round after the magical run.

====
I think where the ownership direction as a negative influence is not the willingness to re-build, but how long they allowed that re-build to play out. When did they set expectation for when they wanted to be in the playoffs again and compete again? How long did they assume the re-build would take? Did that POV change when the team won a round earlier than anticipated?

[ComixZone]

…Jiri just reminded me that we traded for Steve Staios. Which then reminded me that we also traded for Ladislav Smid.

/grumpyface

…but that we also traded for Cammalleri, which makes me happy. Cammy was definitely a favourite of mine from that era.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

…Jiri just reminded me that we traded for Steve Staios. Which then reminded me that we also traded for Ladislav Smid.
.

Sorry

[GioforPM]

I kinda liked Smid. Good guy. But Brossoit would have been handy to have around.

[Reign of Fire]

Wait so this is not a legit rumour

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The weird part about the order from the ownership to sell draft picks to become competitive is that it only came into effect when Brad was here. I think Darryl traded one first round pick in 9 years. And the order to be competitive and not build for the future seems to come and go. In 2015 when the Flames were in a playoff hunt ownership was fine with trading Glencross. But then they changed their mind over the coming years and ordered Brad to be competitive and not build for the future.

Yeah I really doubt the owners tell the GM to mortgage the future and spend as much as possible to win-now. It’s probably more along the lines of if you splurge on contracts and sell off future assets, you better have something to show for it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I kinda liked Smid. Good guy. But Brossoit would have been handy to have around.

I think Smid would have been a positive addition had he not suffered that neck injury.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I think Smid would have been a positive addition had he not suffered that neck injury.

He’s still only 35.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I know I'm in the minority, but I think it will be a mistake to let Treliving go now

Ehhhhh.....

He's had how much runway at this point?

Do we want a change in direction and philosophy or to continue down the same road banking on him learning from his mistakes. I say new direction. Otherwise overall not much will change. Treliving is quite attached to this core and perennially gives up assets for players that end up being disposable. I see him being more active but not really changing his philosophy, one that's been unsuccessful.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

But then again Treliving
- traded picks for Hamonic
- signed Tkachuk to a contract with a bad QO
- failed to get value out of the super complicated Bennett asset
- signed James Neal, who had bounced around from team to team, to term
- paid Rasmus early, unnecessarily
- traded picks for goalies he didn’t keep around
- paid Markstrom 6x6 for the worst results of any goalie since Hiller
- let Brodie walk for nothing while telling him to just wait until he was done with Markstrom
- accumulated 6 Cs while not getting a top line RW
- signed Forbort, Fantenberg etc. in years where the top 4 was stronger and there was room to develop bottom pair D
- signed Simon, Nordstrom
- signed three previously unproven / unsuccessful coaches
etc.

There was room to have done a lot better with the same ‘marching orders’

Thank you. If you really believe the marching orders were to trade futures to get competitive quickly, I don't know how you're happy with the GM's performance.

[oldschoolcalgary]

meh... I don't know where this 'it takes time argument' comes from honestly.

of the current GMs, Treliving is the 10th longest tenured.

NSH Poile July 9, 1997
SJS Wilson May 13, 2003
ANA Murray November 12, 2008
CHI Bowman July 14, 2009
STL Armstrong July 1, 2010
WPG Chevy June 8, 2011
MTL Bergevin May 2, 2012
CBJ Kekalainen February 13, 2013
DAL Nill April 29, 2013
CGY Treliving April 28, 2014
Van Benning May 21, 2014
WSH MacLellan May 26, 2014
COL Sakic September 19, 2014

Of these GMs, the ones bolded either won or were in a SCF. Those in italics got to the conference finals. Only 2 GMs hired before Treliving have done less in the same amount of time: Chevy and Kekalainen.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

meh... I don't know where this 'it takes time argument' comes from honestly.

of the current GMs, Treliving is the 10th longest tenured.

NSH Poile July 9, 1997
SJS Wilson May 13, 2003
ANA Murray November 12, 2008
CHI Bowman July 14, 2009
STL Armstrong July 1, 2010
WPG Chevy June 8, 2011
MTL Bergevin May 2, 2012
CBJ Kekalainen February 13, 2013
DAL Nill April 29, 2013
CGY Treliving April 28, 2014
Van Benning May 21, 2014
WSH MacLellan May 26, 2014
COL Sakic September 19, 2014

Of these GMs, the ones bolded either won or were in a SCF. Those in italics got to the conference finals. Only 2 GMs hired before Treliving have done less in the same amount of time: Chevy and Kekalainen.

Jets got to the conference finals in 2018.

[Jig]

BT needs to go he is not qualified to be POHO maybe assistant GM

[Nelson]

I’d like Eric Tulsky, please. Jeff Gorton would also be good.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah I really doubt the owners tell the GM to mortgage the future and spend as much as possible to win-now. It’s probably more along the lines of if you splurge on contracts and sell off future assets, you better have something to show for it.

No, it is probably more along the lines of, "We don't care how you do it, but make this team competitive, now."

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