Seattle Expansion Draft Speculation

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

Flames should be doing whatever they can to persuade Seattle to take Monahan. Flames need the cap space and there is zero guarantee that he will regain his old form here, especially now that he isn't playing with Gaudreau anymore. They have tried to move him for 2 straight off seasons with no success, therefore his perceived value around the league is low. Eliminating 6+ million on the cap would go a long way for this group, and would be a good shake up to the existing core.

Seattle could be a fresh start for them, and a potential to get into their top 6. With 2 years left on his deal, it could be attractive for them

Wow, that's a hot take lol.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Gio is not one of the worst players on this team. He’s still the Flames’ best overall defenseman. That’s why Darryl has him playing the most minutes and in all the important situations. Isn’t this what people wanted? Ward gone and Darryl in so he could tell everyone who belongs and who doesn’t?

Thats understandable, but this kind if illustrates my point. This team isn't good enough to compete. Maybe moving on from Gio is what's needed.

I also don't think Giordano is our best defenseman any longer.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Thats understandable, but this kind if illustrates my point. This team isn't good enough to compete. Maybe moving on from Gio is what's needed.

I also don't think Giordano is our best defenseman any longer.

If the Flames are trying to compete now, then they can use a Gio. Losing him now makes the Flames a worse team.

Personally, I still think he is the Flames best overall defenseman, which is probably once again an indictment on the management group for not finding a suitable replacement yet, considering he’s pushing 40. But Gio’s versatility is what makes him important to the Flames. He plays in all key situations and gets into the guts of the game.

Is he the Flames best defensive defenseman? No, that title belongs to Chris Tanev. Is he the Flames best offensive defenseman? Certainly debatable. But is he still reliable and can he make himself useful in all areas of the ice? 100%.

I wasn’t fully in on the Darryl Sutter bandwagon when he first arrived, but if there’s one thing he knows, it’s who helps him win and Gio helps him win. Darryl doesn’t believe in coddling young players to foster their growth, he believes in tough love.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Nope I’m talking about Hanifin. Valimaki absolutely took it in the teeth with Sutter, but the evidence of entitlement is also there with Hanifin. Dube goes from #1 line to bench/scratch with Sutter. Hanifin is demoted from top pair to second pair under Sutter.

Hanifin played the most even strength time on ice under Sutter. He averaged 19:30 compared to the 18:45 of Tanev, and the 18:10 of Giordano between March 5 (Sutter's hiring) and April 23 (Hanifin going down to injury the next game). In the most important game of the season against Montreal he played 24 minutes.

He averaged 22 minutes a night under Sutter, more than he did previously. I don't think your belief matches actuality. I mean, Sutter saying that Hanifin is the type of player you don't replace and then advocating to move him due to the expansion draft because of what Sutter said, doesn't make sense.

[Flamesfan05]

If Gio is your best dman then you deserve to miss the playoffs

[TheIronMaiden]

If Gio made half his salery it would be more difficult to assess but the Flames could do a lot of hood for their team with that 6.75 million in cap space.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Stop the Kraken from claiming a top 4 defenseman by having less than 4 top 4 defenseman is such a Flames thing to do especially when one of those defenders is going to retire in a year or two.

I think we're overthinking things. If they want to claim a 38 year old Giordano for one year, should he not retire, let them do so and thank them for the cap-space.

This. The only reason to protect Gio is you think he's worth more at the TDL, but that comes with risk: injury, or the team convinces itself it's a contender and needs to keep him.

Instead of paying a sweetener to keep him, hold onto that sweetener until the TDL and use it then if the team actually warrants an add.

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I think Gio can play for a long time, similar to Chara. He’s generally the fittest Flame in camp and he also relies on his hockey sense/iq and excellent timing. Darryl’s system hides his mobility flaws. Gio has always has a hard time turning and being beaten wide. Darryl’s system shelters that a bit more than Ward’s system.

I just find it disingenuous to think that Darryl freaking Sutter will be perfectly fine with giving up his 26-27 minute defenseman who plays on the top pair plus #1 PP and #1 PK all because the guy is 38 years old. If anything, age works in the favor of the new coach as the youth on this team have been routinely punished both verbally and in usage.

Then we can tell him not to sell his house and we'll try to re-sign him in 2022.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think the Flames trade Giordano (if he is the player they identify as leaving exposed). The forwards with value are all protected. Backlund is not going to get exposed - that would be foolish.


Giordano has strong value - leadership, performance, ability to play both special teams, and consistently still puts up good numbers. He is a welcome addition to basically any team's top 4. Plus, his contract is expiring.


I like Kylington, and I think the Flames should play him and give him a lot of rope, but it isn't going to happen here. Maybe it happens for Mackey now (and it better). Team is also going to re-sign Stone. I can't see Kylington getting much ice-time to develop here. I also don't think that teams are going to be lining up to give the Flames much of an offer. I don't think it will be a 2nd. He needs to pass through waivers, so a team will need to keep him up if they like him enough, and that's not a given. They may see Kylington as a good prospect that needs more development time, but they aren't going to spend assets to then turn around and expose him to waivers right away.


If Valimaki was eligible for the expansion draft, then it makes no sense to trade Giordano (or if the Flames had another higher-value defencemen). I just think the drop-off from Giordano to Kylington is a big one, and when you have a big drop off from your next protection slot, you should probably extract value.


Giordano is going to get less than market value, but the difference between what the Flames get for him minus the market value minus Kylington would probably still be a positive differential, thus worth it. It doesn't make sense to get less than market value for an equal asset and then lose the other equal asset for free - that's cutting off your toe to stop your hangnail.



It will be interesting to see what deals Seattle makes, however. It might be smart of them to use their cap space more than Vegas did. This is a flat-cap world that is still trying to find its' way out of the pandemic. Maybe it is a smart thing to leverage their cap space and take more bad contracts - I bet it is worth more this time around.

[Oling_Roachinen]

You're assuming the Kraken take Giordano if he is exposed. He's still going to be a 38 year old making nearly 7M with a NTC. That's a huge risk for a team literally building from the ground up when at least this time there will be actual assets available like Kylington.

If they get a deal in place, who's to say the team isn't on Giordano's no trade list? I don't think they would necessarily be privy to that information.

So between the cap, a secret no-trade list, dealing with actually making your team and not armchair GM hypothetical trades with players you haven't even acquired who may not be exposed, it probably just makes it more sensible to go after the players who might actually contribute to the team long term.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Hanifin played the most even strength time on ice under Sutter. He averaged 19:30 compared to the 18:45 of Tanev, and the 18:10 of Giordano between March 5 (Sutter's hiring) and April 23 (Hanifin going down to injury the next game). In the most important game of the season against Montreal he played 24 minutes.

He averaged 22 minutes a night under Sutter, more than he did previously. I don't think your belief matches actuality. I mean, Sutter saying that Hanifin is the type of player you don't replace and then advocating to move him due to the expansion draft because of what Sutter said, doesn't make sense.

I’m not saying Sutter doesn’t like Hanifin, clearly he liked him because he didn’t scratch him once like he seemed to do with a lot of the other young defensemen. All I’m saying is that Darryl seems to like Gio more than Hanifin based on the evidence. If Darryl could, I’m sure he’d keep the top 4 the same, but the expansion situation creates a problem here and if it comes down to Seattle trying to extort the Flames, then it may be more prudent to make a trade externally.

But in the end, like I said earlier. I believe the Flames will ultimately just send a couple of picks to protect the top 4 D. But what I’m also saying is that I won’t be shocked if the scenario I’m thinking arises either as no coach likes losing their top defenseman.

[Oling_Roachinen]

So to protect your 38 year old number 1, you trade your 24 year old number 2 (based strictly on time-on-ice under Sutter down the stretch). So in two years you have neither?

Seems like every team that tried to be "smart" and protect their team against Vegas just making a pick ended up regretting it. This is a no-brainer in my mind, if the Kraken are willing to waste a pick on a 38 year old with a NTC and high cap hit, let them and in two years when they have nothing to show for it and their in our division, be thankful.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

So to protect your 38 year old number 1, you trade your 24 year old number 2 (based strictly on time-on-ice under Sutter down the stretch). So in two years you have neither?

Seems like every team that tried to be "smart" and protect their team against Vegas just making a pick ended up regretting it. This is a no-brainer in my mind, if the Kraken are willing to waste a pick on a 38 year old with a NTC and high cap hit, let them and in two years when they have nothing to show for it and their in our division, be thankful.

I’m just not so sure age is even a factor to Sutter. Like, I understand everyone’s reasoning here, trust me, I get it, clearly age 24 > 38, 3 years left. It makes perfect sense to covet the younger longer term asset. But, the Flames are also trying to win now and they’re not exactly in a position to lose a good player like Gio and just absorb the loss, this team would feel it.

So I’m just putting myself in Darryl’s shoes here, here’s a guy who has shown very little desire to not play his absolute best each night for the purposes of winning. He rode Markstrom like there was no tomorrow, even when the Flames were clearly done. So to lose your top pairing, 25+ minute a night defenseman who plays on PP1 & PK1 unit might make even less sense.

So I don’t know, I’m just saying this is worthy of a discussion here. All I know is, I’m not going to be shocked regardless of what direction they go as I’m preparing myself for all kinds of scenarios.

[Roof-Daddy]

The Flames need to whatever they can to convince Seattle to take Monahan??

So, just not protect him then?

Because that is all it would take and they would snap him up so fast it'd make your head spin.

Like seriously, WTF kind of a take is that??

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think the Flames trade Giordano (if he is the player they identify as leaving exposed). T

Who would want him AND have a protection slot available?

DET? (to flip at TDL)
VAN could acquire him and go 4-4 because their F's are so bad.

Scrolling through CF, those are the only options I see.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

You're assuming the Kraken take Giordano if he is exposed. He's still going to be a 38 year old making nearly 7M with a NTC. That's a huge risk for a team literally building from the ground up when at least this time there will be actual assets available like Kylington.

If they get a deal in place, who's to say the team isn't on Giordano's no trade list? I don't think they would necessarily be privy to that information.

So between the cap, a secret no-trade list, dealing with actually making your team and not armchair GM hypothetical trades with players you haven't even acquired who may not be exposed, it probably just makes it more sensible to go after the players who might actually contribute to the team long term.

It's a 19 team trade list...so 12 teams no go. If he ends up in SEA, I imagine he'll simply list the worst 12 teams, but be happy to chase a cup if it comes to it.

I think it's a coin flip whether they take him or not if exposed, as it will depend a lot on what else is available to them.

[transplant99]

I still believe that Gio would retire before going to Seattle for what would amount to 7 months only to likely be moved to another city again. If anyone on this club personifies family first, its Gio.


I would tell my agent to let it be known those are my thoughts and let that info make its way to Ron Francis.

On top of which Im skeptical Francis takes him even without that info. expansion teams aren't looking for guys to have for 1 year or less when trying to build something from scratch.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I’m just not so sure age is even a factor to Sutter. Like, I understand everyone’s reasoning here, trust me, I get it, clearly age 24 > 38, 3 years left. It makes perfect sense to covet the younger longer term asset. But, the Flames are also trying to win now and they’re not exactly in a position to lose a good player like Gio and just absorb the loss, this team would feel it.

I'm sure Sutter wants Giordano over not having Giordano. We agree there. But he's the coach for the Flames, not the GM for the Krakens. Heck not even the GM for the Flames who have to look long-term unlike a coach.

I think you take the risk that the GM of the Krakens doesn't want to take on a 38 year old. Then if you're wrong, look at using that cap-space on a UFA who might bring in something comparable.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I still believe that Gio would retire before going to Seattle for what would amount to 7 months only to likely be moved to another city again. If anyone on this club personifies family first, its Gio.


I would tell my agent to let it be known those are my thoughts and let that info make its way to Ron Francis.

On top of which Im skeptical Francis takes him even without that info. expansion teams aren't looking for guys to have for 1 year or less when trying to build something from scratch.

He’d be telling his family that they won’t have whatever the net of $13M is.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Seattle won't take Giordano for the long-game of course. That doesn't make sense. They just take the highest value asset available. Whatever fits in the long-term outlook, they keep. Whatever doesn't, they flip during the season up until the trade deadline. Sure, there is a risk of injury, but there is a risk that Kylington never 'gets it' either, and there is a risk that a pick won't amount to anything at all. Of course it isn't a long-term solution - a 38 year old is not a long-term solution for anyone.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He’d be telling his family that they won’t have whatever the net of $13M is.

??

6.7 you mean?

Thats true but he has also earned over 55M in his career. So if the money is an issue then you are correct... he wont do that.

I just get a vibe from him, it isnt all about that.

I may be 100% incorrect, just my feelings about who the guy is.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

??

6.7 you mean?

Thats true but he has also earned over 55M in his career. So if the money is an issue then you are correct... he wont do that.

I just get a vibe from him, it isnt all about that.

I may be 100% incorrect, just my feelings about who the guy is.

For some reason I thought he had 2 seasons left. One season - my point is even stronger IMO. His family wouldn’t even likely move at all. They might not move to Seattle, and I doubt many rentals move when traded at the TDL. Plus he’d be an hour away by plane. He could spend any non-practice day with the family if he wanted.

Money is always an issue. And Gio knew that a trade would be likely and was willing to take the risk, otherwise he wouldn’t agree to the pretty weak MNTC in his last 2 years.