2021 Off season: You're in charge, what would you do?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You have no idea because your comment about being a powerplay specialist is debatable. So Johnny does not create scoring chances at all at even strength. Does your analysis take into consideration that he has played the entire season with a PTO level player on his RW?

Johnny has proven that he is not a franchise player and is not a guy that will carry a team or a terrible line to be elite. If Johnny went to a team like the Avs where he is the third best forward I see things going a lot differently for him and he would be scoring points at an elite rate.

I have absolute zero doubt that Johnny will get a deal that gives him a raise over 7-8 years when he signs a new deal and I think it is almost certainly elsewhere

I’d take Landeskog over Johnny no question. I’m sure you have Mackinnon and Rantanen over him as well.

I’m for keeping as many players as we can but if trading Tkachuk and Johnny improves our team down the road and increases our chances at wright or bedard then it might be worth it. Neither are franchise players and both are going to get paid. I’d keep Tkachuk but only if he resigns this off season and I only resign if it’s 6 years or more and not over 9. Even then I struggle to see a $9 mil player even what he provided last year as well. Especially in a flat cap league that could stay that way for 2 more seasons. If the cap was going up it’s typical 2 to 5 percent each year I’d be fine with resigning Tkachuk for more money or less term but this flat cap is a huge problem with his next deal

Combine that with high end drafts coming up it makes more sense to retool or rebuild then keep everyone and fill holes

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You have no idea because your comment about being a powerplay specialist is debatable. So Johnny does not create scoring chances at all at even strength. Does your analysis take into consideration that he has played the entire season with a PTO level player on his RW?

Johnny has proven that he is not a franchise player and is not a guy that will carry a team or a terrible line to be elite. If Johnny went to a team like the Avs where he is the third best forward I see things going a lot differently for him and he would be scoring points at an elite rate.

I have absolute zero doubt that Johnny will get a deal that gives him a raise over 7-8 years when he signs a new deal and I think it is almost certainly elsewhere

Yes...again, he just needs better line mates. SMH

He is on the same ppg pace as last year more or less....wanna remind me who his RW was then?

And can that not be said for every single player in the league? I mean...jeezuz at what point is a 7M player responsible for creating on his own and not relying on others? Is that guy not the guy that should be making others better?

As was pointed out in another thread....he is 139th in the NHL scoring at ES. This is not the same player that we saw previous to the AS break 2 seasons ago. Its no longer some small sample size. Maybe its all on Monahan? Who knows but there is no way to find that out.

Maybe he finds his mojo again and it would be great if it was in Calgary, but in no way shape or form am i signing a declining player at age 28 to a 7 or 8 year deal at more money than he makes now, so as to the bolded...lets hope like hell you are right.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I’d take Landeskog over Johnny no question. I’m sure you have Mackinnon and Rantanen over him as well.

I’m for keeping as many players as we can but if trading Tkachuk and Johnny improves our team down the road and increases our chances at wright or bedard then it might be worth it. Neither are franchise players and both are going to get paid. I’d keep Tkachuk but only if he resigns this off season and I only resign if it’s 6 years or more and not over 9. Even then I struggle to see a $9 mil player even what he provided last year as well. Especially in a flat cap league that could stay that way for 2 more seasons. If the cap was going up it’s typical 2 to 5 percent each year I’d be fine with resigning Tkachuk for more money or less term but this flat cap is a huge problem with his next deal

Combine that with high end drafts coming up it makes more sense to retool or rebuild then keep everyone and fill holes

Landeskog is a good all around player but also has only 23 more points than Johnny in 165 more games played. I also think Johnny will age better given he relies on vision vs the physicality that Landeskog has in his game. I could see a sharp decline coming for Gabe where I think Johnny will have some of his best seasons if he can get himself into that Phil Kessel on the Pens role with a team where he is a key piece but not the focal point of a team.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yes...again, he just needs better line mates. SMH

He is on the same ppg pace as last year more or less....wanna remind me who his RW was then?

And can that not be said for every single player in the league? I mean...jeezuz at what point is a 7M player responsible for creating on his own and not relying on others? Is that guy not the guy that should be making others better?

As was pointed out in another thread....he is 139th in the NHL scoring at ES. This is not the same player that we saw previous to the AS break 2 seasons ago. Its no longer some small sample size. Maybe its all on Monahan? Who knows but there is no way to find that out.

Maybe he finds his mojo again and it would be great if it was in Calgary, but in no way shape or form am i signing a declining player at age 28 to a 7 or 8 year deal at more money than he makes now, so as to the bolded...lets hope like hell you are right.

The reality is NHL forwards peak between 24-28. JG is statistically out of his prime.

And he is a smaller player, who doesn't take his fitness and personal health as #1 priority.

When you are that size and you loose 1 step you regress fast.

I don't think teams figured him out, he just is a tiny bit slower at the things he use to do. With his physical stature that tiny bit can be the game changer

I think he can completely bounce back, and be an 80 point guy on a line with stars and really help some teams.

I don't think he can be the "guy" - And that's the Flames #1 problem. We get annoyed that a 5 foot nothing 4th round pick being paid like the 3rd or 4th best player on a good team should be leading us to the promise land.

He makes 1.25 million more then Milan Lucic FFS. (And I love Lucic this year)

[Strange Brew]

There is no way one off season can bring the change needed to transform this club into a contender.

ALmost every contending club has better top players than the Flames. Nearly impossible to change that dynamic through trades. And there are no prospects in the pipeline that are going to be able to change that dynamic.

If we really want things to change, this off season needs to be about more than trades, but instead needs to be a shift in the approach to team building. Teams looking to build a pipeline of young talent don't trade picks for guys like Bollig, Lazar, Hamonic, Elliott, Smith, Gustafson, Stone, Forbort, Fantanberg.

Because building a pipeline of young talent is the only plausible way for this team to be successful.

Take the money you'd spend on another 30+ year old UFA and invest in scouting, development, coaching and analytics.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yes...again, he just needs better line mates. SMH

He is on the same ppg pace as last year more or less....wanna remind me who his RW was then?

And can that not be said for every single player in the league? I mean...jeezuz at what point is a 7M player responsible for creating on his own and not relying on others? Is that guy not the guy that should be making others better?

As was pointed out in another thread....he is 139th in the NHL scoring at ES. This is not the same player that we saw previous to the AS break 2 seasons ago. Its no longer some small sample size. Maybe its all on Monahan? Who knows but there is no way to find that out.

Maybe he finds his mojo again and it would be great if it was in Calgary, but in no way shape or form am i signing a declining player at age 28 to a 7 or 8 year deal at more money than he makes now, so as to the bolded...lets hope like hell you are right.

I am definitely not advocating signing him and I have been clear that the core forwards of this team not living up to their ceiling is why this rebuild failed. Johnny is the Flames version of MacKinnon, McDavid, Matthews, Ovechkin, Kane, etc and he is nowhere near their level. When he finished 6th in league scoring as a sophomore or 4th in Hart voting 2 years ago it seemed like he was going to be good enough. It hasn’t happened and the team needs to move on this offseason. I don’t see a situation where he does stay unless he truly is as loyal to the organization as he has portrayed or some fans believe.

Last year he spent games with Buddy Robinson on his wing and for some reason Backlund spent a bunch of time on his wing. Lindholm was moved there late in the season and spent a large portion of last year at center.

Even with Monahan Johnny is still by far the best player on his line. Lots of teams have guys making $7M that are not carrying a line on their own. I think Johnny as the third option on a team will have that team as one of the elite offensive groups in the league. I think he is more than a powerplay specialist but I also do not think he is a franchise player that can carry a team

[GioforPM]

I am all for tanking and hunting for elite players in 2022-3. However, teams that do it don’t go scorched earth either. They trade assets when it makes sense from a contract and return standpoint. This is what the Pens did over a 2-3 year period.

So this off season you look to trade Johnny if he seems like trouble with his NTC next season. You have to look at trading Tkachuk if his ask is unreasonable. But you could even qualify him and see what happens next year. There’s not a lot of risk to do so. Right now you are trading low on him. Monahan and Gio can wait a season when their expiring contracts are worth more. Other guys like Backlund, Taney, etc. If the price is right, go ahead. There’s no real rush because the real dealing starts next TDL (aside from JG).

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

1. Trade Tkachuk + for Eichel. The + might have to include Mangiapane or Dube and a draft pick and that would suck, but elite talent makes fans forget about middle six players pretty quickly.

Might have to include? It will take a lot more than that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Sell everything not nailed down, acquire as many 2022 and 2023 1st rounders as possible and hope we have more than one lottery ticket in those drafts.

Keep Sutter. Even if the team bottoms out for a couple of seasons, he won't let a culture of losing take hold.

If it was possible to sign Tkachuk long-term, I would do it. I think he has more to give and won't peak for a while, but I strongly suspect he already has one foot out the door. I would also keep Lindholm and Mangiapane to help lead the the young players. Andersson is another I would keep. Not a banner year for him, but I suspect it's just a blip. But for the right price, no one should be off limits.

If there are some takers for Markstrom and he was willing, I would pursue that. Just the right goalie at the wrong time for a rebuilding team.

And replace Treliving. He has hasn't been consistent on building an identity for this team. Going from Hartley, Gulutzan, Peters, Ward, and Sutter in a 7 year time frame, it's no wonder most of the players don't know if they are coming or going.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Sell everything not nailed down, acquire as many 2022 and 2023 1st rounders as possible and hope we have more than one lottery ticket in those drafts.

Keep Sutter. Even if the team bottoms out for a couple of seasons, he won't let a culture of losing take hold.

If it was possible to sign Tkachuk long-term, I would do it. I think he has more to give and won't peak for a while, but I strongly suspect he already has one foot out the door. I would also keep Lindholm and Mangiapane to help lead the the young players. Andersson is another I would keep. Not a banner year for him, but I suspect it's just a blip. But for the right price, no one should be off limits.

If there are some takers for Markstrom and he was willing, I would pursue that. Just the right goalie at the wrong time for a rebuilding team.

And replace Treliving. He has hasn't been consistent on building an identity for this team. Going from Hartley, Gulutzan, Peters, Ward, and Sutter in a 7 year time frame, it's no wonder most of the players don't know if they are coming or going.

Those two things cant happen at the same time.

Sutter did not come out of retirement to oversee a rebuild.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Those two things cant happen at the same time.

Sutter did not come out of retirement to oversee a rebuild.

That is where this whole thread becomes a bit of a problem. People are free to respond with what they SHOULD do that is what the OP asked but if the question is “what do you think the WILL do” the answer is obvious and it is not strip the team down and try and retool

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Gio doesn’t have a full NMC and can only block 12 teams next deadline so this isn’t Hall or Iggy forcing a bad trade to the team of their choice.

Only 12?

Which means he can block a trade to any viable playoff team that might trade for him.

Make no mistake , Gio isn’t going anywhere he doesn’t want too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SeanCharles]

- Extend Gaudreau if he is willing to stay at a fair AAV or trade him if not
- Trade Backlund
- Trade Gio
- Take a run at acquiring Eichel if the price is right
- Replace the bottom 5 forwards in the regular lineup
- Only trade Monahan, Tkachuk or Gaudreau if it clearly makes us better now/in the future
- Sign Stone to league min

Trade or let walk: Backlund, Ryan, Leivo, Ritchie, Nordstrom, Simon, Gio, Nesterov, Dominique

Maybe I’m in the minority but I still like and believe a lot of these guys can be part of the solution here. I’m not going to let the pathetic scoring depth we have make me think our best players aren’t good anymore.

I still think Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Dube, Mangiapane, Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki, Tanev and Markstrom can be part of a winning Calgary Flames team.

I’m willing to trade some of these guys, don’t get me wrong, but I’m not running them out of town. If we trade any of them it needs to make sense as trading them for unknown quantities like picks/non-blue-chip prospects seems way too risky.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Those two things cant happen at the same time.

Sutter did not come out of retirement to oversee a rebuild.

I suspect not, and he wants to step down, that would be fine too. I just don't think it's worth dismissing him and bringing in another dud that let's the inmates run the asylum. That's poison for a young team and part of the issue right now. I think we are still paying the price for Gulutzan.

No sought after coach is going to want to come into a rebuilding situation, but Sutter is under contract already. Sucks to be him I guess. If Sutter is let go, we are probably looking at another Ward situation where the coach that comes in does so because it's not like they will get a head coaching job somewhere else.

[Poe969]

I know Sutter didn't come to help a rebuild but if it happens, I think he would actually be good with a young team. Imagine if he was Mcavi when he was a rookie. He could help shape some good kids into really great kids.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Might have to include? It will take a lot more than that.

I meant that it might have to include Mangiapane specifically. First line player under team control + good roster player under team control + 1st round pick is about the range of what I think Buffalo will get for Eichel.

I disagree that it would take a lot more but I'm open to be convinced otherwise. I've looked at deals for top players in the last 15 years and the huge cupboard emptying demands that everyone seems so sure about appear to be pure fan fantasy. I'm genuinely curious about what kind of package Eichel will be traded for?

Regardless, even if it took a ton to get Eichel, I would go for it (unless it was insane). Finding middle six forwards or bottom 4 D is infinitely easier than finding a 1C.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Only 12?

Which means he can block a trade to any viable playoff team that might trade for him.

Make no mistake , Gio isn’t going anywhere he doesn’t want too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So 38 year old Gio who is about to be a UFA will choose to stay here and put 12 of 16 playoff teams on his NT list even if the team is where they are today?

16 teams make the playoffs and likely 20 or more are in the mix come deadline. He can’t block everyone

[OILFAN #81]

Opinion from a rival fan:

Calgary needs to build around Gaudreau and Lindholm up front. See what is out there for Tkachuk and Monahan in a trade (personally I'm not a fan of either one of them even beyond being a Flame). Gaudreau though shouldn't be the best forward on the team. He needs to be the 2nd best forward and Lindholm the 3rd. Easier said then done to get a elite forward but flipping Tkachuk + Monahan + for a forward (I can think of some possibilities) is what needs to be done in my opinion. I think teams would still trade for Tkachuk and there would be value. If you add in Monahan, pick+prospect, I think there is room for an upgrade (Eichel among others).

Free agency wise:

Colorado won't let Landeskog go but he would be a fit (same with Grubauer).

Calgary needs elite goal scorers/offensive players.

[tvp2003]

The "stars"

The key IMO is Gaudreau. I see him as part of the solution but that is likely not going to come cheap. If he's not going to re-sign, better to deal him in the off-season versus at the deadline.

Sutter's focus is down the middle and in goal. Markstrom, Lindholm, and Backlund aren't going anywhere. The question is whether Monahan is worth keeping as a 2C -- which is crazy to think given his numbers prior to this year, but is a real question. I think he has more trade value than some think, but I think he could have more to give as well. I'd be happy bringing back Ryan as a veteran 4C.

I think you have to expect Tkachuk to bounce back a little next year, so any potential trade would have to reflect that. I'd be interested if Sutter thinks he can get more out of him; I also like to think Tkachuk will reflect on what went wrong this year and have a good off-season of training for what will be the last year of his current contract.

So who moves? I think between Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk, I think you have to deal at least one. Good chance you lose the trade but it's probably necessary at this point because status quo isn't going to fly.

The Forward "Depth"

Between Ritchie, Leivo, Simon and Nordstrom -- were any of them a success this year? Don't forget, we also re-signed Rinaldo as well. Treliving should focus on one or maybe two cheap vets, but you have to leave room for the young guys and keep at least one spot open for them as well (I realize this year was unusual because of the taxi squad, but the point stands).

The Blue Line

The "top 4" are who they are; I don't see any changes to be honest. The biggest improvement will come from Andersson and Valimaki getting better; I think Mackey is ready to step in as well (or at least be given a chance).

Expansion

You have to expose Gio versus Tanev; I doubt Seattle takes him anyway so I wouldn't give up any assets to "protect" him. Better options are available (i.e. Kylington; I could also see them wanting to sign Ryan like Vegas did with Engelland).

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

Opinion from a rival fan:

Calgary needs to build around Gaudreau and Lindholm up front. See what is out there for Tkachuk and Monahan in a trade (personally I'm not a fan of either one of them even beyond being a Flame). Gaudreau though shouldn't be the best forward on the team. He needs to be the 2nd best forward and Lindholm the 3rd. Easier said then done to get a elite forward but flipping Tkachuk + Monahan + for a forward (I can think of some possibilities) is what needs to be done in my opinion. I think teams would still trade for Tkachuk and there would be value. If you add in Monahan, pick+prospect, I think there is room for an upgrade (Eichel among others).

Free agency wise:

Colorado won't let Landeskog go but he would be a fit (same with Grubauer).

Calgary needs elite goal scorers/offensive players.

I think you are right about Gaudreau and Lindholm needing to be our 2nd and 3rd best players as we’ve obviously needed a true #1 center for ages.

If we could get Eichel for those two you mentioned it could end up being a win for the organization.

Having Gaudreau, Lindholm, Eichel, Mangiapane, Dube, Zary and Pelletier to build around up front could work if the young guys continue to progress.