Location: Chicago Native relocated to the stinking desert of Utah
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I have been watching the NHL since 1965. Referees have been practicing "game management" for as long as I can remember. There is no other excuse for the way that the rules were applied, especially, in close games, where nothing was called in the 3rd period or OT. I forget which linesman, retiring after a long career, was asked why he didn't progress to Referee, in that career. His answer was telling: "I see all incidents in the games as black and white.", meaning that he was inflexible in applying rules, rather than managing game flow.
Now, Peel, has been a lowly regarded Ref, by many fans, for years, but, it wasn't horribly inconsistent performance that gave them the excuse to terminate, it was his telling the truth on how NHL referees seem to operate.
__________________ "If the wine's not good enough for the cook, the wine's not good enough for the dish!" - Julia Child (goddess of the kitchen)
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There's a lot of talk about how refs manage games and more than one comment about "You can be sure that if x then y"
I'd be interested to see if anyone has actually taken the time to look into whether or not any of the "Game management" theories are true.
The data all exists, has anyone run the numbers?
Is there any evidence that teams who are leading are more likely to get penalized?
How about the number of penalties in close games?
If this was the huge problem people think it is, rather than just confirmation bias about someone's favourite team, it would make a hell of a story for any reporter.
I have no idea if it's true or not, I'm open to the possibility, and I'd really like to see if anyone has actually looked into the underlying numbers.
It's not that black and white. For example, you can look into the data and I have no doubt you will find that teams who are leading are more likely to get penalized. That doesn't prove game management. Teams that are ahead are more likely to be defending at the end of the game while the other team attacks to try to catch up. You're more likely to take penalties while defending in general, bias or no bias.
I don't think there is much doubt that some level of game management happens, but the extent is uncertain and there is a lot of ground between a make-up call for a mistake made earlier and a deliberate mandate for close games. Number can help give some indication of bias, but they can't prove intent.
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Refs are the scourge of the league. They must be dealt with.
First, purge the entire existing reffing structure. Start from scratch.
Next, take refs and linesmen off the ice. Too often they obstruct the play or deflect the puck. With technology, they are not really needed.
Replace the on ice refs (2) with a panel of 3 refs in a video review booth watching multiple angles. 1 ref is provided by each team, the third by the league. The third ultimately rules, but the other 2 create a balanced view.
Two Goon linesmen are in the penalty box area, waiting for the "whistle" (a sound over the PA) to be released onto the ice and break up any scruffs. At the beginning, they can also do the puck drop before sprinting back to their area and off the ice. Eventually, drones can be designed to perform the puck drop.
No more refs.
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Refs are the scourge of the league. They must be dealt with.
First, purge the entire existing reffing structure. Start from scratch.
Next, take refs and linesmen off the ice. Too often they obstruct the play or deflect the puck. With technology, they are not really needed.
Replace the on ice refs (2) with a panel of 3 refs in a video review booth watching multiple angles. 1 ref is provided by each team, the third by the league. The third ultimately rules, but the other 2 create a balanced view.
Two Goon linesmen are in the penalty box area, waiting for the "whistle" (a sound over the PA) to be released onto the ice and break up any scruffs. At the beginning, they can also do the puck drop before sprinting back to their area and off the ice. Eventually, drones can be designed to perform the puck drop.
No more refs.
Forgot green text or is this actually a serious post?
Forgot green text or is this actually a serious post?
It's serious. #### on ice refs thinking they are part of the flow of the game. They are not. It's time to get them off the ice and into a serious impartial role.
It's serious. #### on ice refs thinking they are part of the flow of the game. They are not. It's time to get them off the ice and into a serious impartial role.
I think MAYBE you can get away with refs being in a press box and making calls. But even still, how are you going to break up major scrums?
You absolutely need linesmen on the ice at all times. Who will retrieve pucks after icings? If they are constantly in the penalty box and zipping in and out, it adds several seconds to each stoppage, thereby slowing the game down. They should have the help of technology to call goals and offsides, but I ultimately think it should still be a human making the decisions. Remember when Skynet started making decisions for us?
I think this has been mentioned before in previous threads before this but what you rarely see in the NHL is consecutive penalties. Say you're on the PP and attacking, the penalty killers are tired and the player comes out of the box to join the play. The attack is continuing because the defending team is pinned in their own zone because they're tired and disoriented (they may have weird combos or 3 defensemen out there). But a 2nd penalty is never called as the defending team is hooking and grabbing trying to survive.
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
The almost unanimous opinions about this issue in this thread show that pretty well every fan sees NHL reffing for what it is.
I'm glad the league took action (they had to) but they are also hypocritical here. The make up call, game management, etc is the worst kept secret in hockey. The league is complicit as NHL games have rarely (never?) been properly or consistently officiated. Different standards for playoffs vs regular season, late in games vs first period etc. The NHL is only doing anything because he was stupid enough to say this while being mic'ed-up. Which is a special kind of stupid, but they have to know that all their refs do stuff like this all the time.
The gold standard of sports officiating for me is rugby. The concept of game management would be completely foreign to rugby officials. Any rugby fans - can you imagine a "make-up" offsides call? Or a rugby official just deciding to not call a foul because it's late in the game? The NHL could expect the same level of consistency from their referees... they just chose not to.
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Yeah the idea of replacing officials with drones, sounds great. Automate as much as you can. The technology is so close.
Get coaches off the bench too. Reduce Covid risk. Have the coaches communicate with them via some kind of transmitter where they receive the signal and then respond according to the coach’s instruction
What if they take it a step further and could create digital replicas of the players to avoid the risks to human participants too, no more concussions or pucks to the face. You can equip them with AI as well, to make their decision making indistinguishable from the real players!
Maybe even create the equivalent of a parallel universe where you can experience what it’s like if you yourself can manage the team
We are close, and someone directed me to this glimpse in to the future
Spoiler!
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The almost unanimous opinions about this issue in this thread show that pretty well every fan sees NHL reffing for what it is.
I'm glad the league took action (they had to) but they are also hypocritical here. The make up call, game management, etc is the worst kept secret in hockey. The league is complicit as NHL games have rarely (never?) been properly or consistently officiated. Different standards for playoffs vs regular season, late in games vs first period etc. The NHL is only doing anything because he was stupid enough to say this while being mic'ed-up. Which is a special kind of stupid, but they have to know that all their refs do stuff like this all the time.
The gold standard of sports officiating for me is rugby. The concept of game management would be completely foreign to rugby officials. Any rugby fans - can you imagine a "make-up" offsides call? Or a rugby official just deciding to not call a foul because it's late in the game? The NHL could expect the same level of consistency from their referees... they just chose not to.
In some ways you might say the Flames are the poster children of NHL hockey - the whole system is designed for every team to be 16th in the league. The Flames should get some kind of trophy for consistently being the ideal NHL franchise.
The points system designed to artificially bunch everyone closer together. The refereeing designed to ensure that every game is tied going into the last 5 minutes. The refusal to actually make telling rule changes that reflect that things have changed since 1952 (such as the size of players and goalies, in particular). The league basically tries to ensure that nobody is too good or too bad, which makes the whole thing boring to me. At least you used to have brawls to make it a spectacle, but now it's just corporate staff meetings on ice...
The idiot spoke the unsaid. Ideally for the NHL he was done in a month anyhow. But I am sure even if he had 2 or 3 years left, they would have fired him and just paid him his salary to ensure he kept his mouth shut and did not say something embarrassing like "Colin Campbell told me how to call games". Speaking of embarrassing, the fact that CC is still employed in a prominent and important capacity...
Even if the NHL manages games at least its not as bad as the NBA...
Or so I've heard, I've never actually watched much pumpkin toss.
Well the NBA is a 100 times worse as they don't just actively manage games they actively manage the standings. But that doesn't mean the NHL or it's fans should rest on "more integrity than the NBA".
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Feel bad in a way for Peel because a lot of refs do it, he just got caught. The league had no choice but to fire him though.
Yeah I feel bad there wasn't more caught.
Referees should have stats kept and published.
How many calls, type of calls, which teams/players get more.
And even good calls/ bad calls/ iffy calls.
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The gold standard of sports officiating for me is rugby. The concept of game management would be completely foreign to rugby officials. Any rugby fans - can you imagine a "make-up" offsides call? Or a rugby official just deciding to not call a foul because it's late in the game? The NHL could expect the same level of consistency from their referees... they just chose not to.
Just going to leave this here...
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I feel a whole lot of nothing will come from this. But if there is some sort of reform, I really hope they take away the NBA style of preferential treatment for star players. Nothing infuriates me more than a different set of rules for different players. If players are truly that special they shouldn’t have to worry about drawing calls to produce.
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Rugby Refs are always mic'd up so you can always hear their decision making process.
I don't mind that idea
Everything about rugby reffing is better. From the TMO to mic'd refs on the field. The best part of the off ice officials is play can be stopped at any time if an obvious flagrant penalty is taken and missed by the on field officials.
