03-27-2021, 07:56 AM
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#61
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
I thought the opposite. - I thought Monahan was easily the most energetic and effective out of the three, aside from one rush by Gaudreau. I actually forgot Lindholm even existed outside of his boneheaded penalty and not being ready for the opening faceoff.
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Interesting — I didn’t watch the entire game, but when I noticed that line entering the o-zone with speed, it was usually 13 and 28. Maybe that’s a function of the breakout, but it was more noticeable for me. My expectations are pretty low though, and I’d agree that Lindholm was otherwise pretty quiet (assist notwithstanding).
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03-27-2021, 07:59 AM
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#62
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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So, reading the analysis and the debate, I come to the conclusion that the only style that actually works for this roster is the one implemented by Hartley, and we have basically wasted half a decade trying to plug square pegs into that very round hole. Except for the brief period at the start of Peters' tenure. I guess, notwithstanding the asshatery, Hartley did know a little something about coaching...
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03-27-2021, 08:18 AM
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#64
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Franchise Player
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If by splitting them up you mean trading them then yes.
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03-27-2021, 08:39 AM
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#65
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Scoring Winger
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Split Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackey
If by splitting them up you mean trading them then yes.
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Trade one to LA and the other to NY.
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03-27-2021, 09:14 AM
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#66
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvp2003
Interesting — I didn’t watch the entire game, but when I noticed that line entering the o-zone with speed, it was usually 13 and 28. Maybe that’s a function of the breakout, but it was more noticeable for me. My expectations are pretty low though, and I’d agree that Lindholm was otherwise pretty quiet (assist notwithstanding).
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I am more watching the offensive and D zone puck battles, and control of the puck. Gaudreau and Lindholm were indeed the ones carrying through the neutral zone but that’s because Monahan was the guy in the D zone getting them the puck. They’d then enter the zone but it was Monahan behind the net or on the boards getting the puck and trying to make a play. That should actually be Lindholm, if Monahan is to be the shooter.
The margin isn’t huge though - the whole line was pretty ineffective. I think you have Monahan trying to play Sutter’s forecheck, Johnny confused by the same thing, and Lindholm not liking the wing.
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03-27-2021, 09:47 AM
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#67
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Barnet - North London
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Yup. Split them up.
Johnny to Philly, Mony to wherever.
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03-27-2021, 02:16 PM
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#68
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler
So, reading the analysis and the debate, I come to the conclusion that the only style that actually works for this roster is the one implemented by Hartley, and we have basically wasted half a decade trying to plug square pegs into that very round hole. Except for the brief period at the start of Peters' tenure. I guess, notwithstanding the asshatery, Hartley did know a little something about coaching...
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Hartley wasn’t the long term answer. His systems lead to a lot of goals against and when you couple that with the average goaltending we were getting after he left, it would’ve been a disaster.
Eventually, the league would’ve figured out the Monahan-Gaudreau duo regardless of who coached. When you realize that these 2 do most of their damage on the rush, then it’s just a matter of defending their breakout and you neutralize that line. Furthermore, when you realize the outlet is generally the winger, it becomes even easier to stop.
I’ve always wondered if Gaudreau would’ve been better breaking out from his off wing though. Along the boards he could’ve dropped deeper into the zone, taken it on his forehead more and passed it back to a the open D or C to move up ice as a unit. Johnny on the left side appears to often be too far ahead of his linemates to buy enough time for support. Anyways, that’s for the coaches to figure out, but it’s probably too late as time has essentially run out for this once dynamic duo most likely.
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03-27-2021, 03:10 PM
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#69
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
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I'm going to throw this out there and probably get a lot of flak for it... but I wonder if Monahan's earlier development into a proper #1C was negatively affected by playing with Johnny so much.
In his first year before Johnny joined the team, people were comparing Monahan's style (in junior?) to to Jonathan Toews. But then Johnny was such a great puck distributor and Mony's shot was so deadly effective, that Mony became accustomed to going to the open spots where Johnny could get him the puck. As a consequence of extended scoring success in that role, the rest of his game didn't really develop, things like battling along the boards and the defensive side of his game.
Now, after 5-6 years of playing shotgun to Johnny, Mony has developed a reputation for being the sniper and not an offensive threat on his own.
We've seen Monahan on the PK recently, and I saw him take a shift on PP2 without Johnny and he carried the puck into the O-zone, which is a bit of a shocker for me. It was a successful entry, too.
Am I way off base? This wouldn't be my first bad take.
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03-27-2021, 03:14 PM
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#70
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Dallas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowlord
I'm going to throw this out there and probably get a lot of flak for it... but I wonder if Monahan's earlier development into a proper #1C was negatively affected by playing with Johnny so much.
In his first year before Johnny joined the team, people were comparing Monahan's style (in junior?) to to Jonathan Toews. But then Johnny was such a great puck distributor and Mony's shot was so deadly effective, that Mony became accustomed to going to the open spots where Johnny could get him the puck. As a consequence of extended scoring success in that role, the rest of his game didn't really develop, things like battling along the boards and the defensive side of his game.
Now, after 5-6 years of playing shotgun to Johnny, Mony has developed a reputation for being the sniper and not an offensive threat on his own.
We've seen Monahan on the PK recently, and I saw him take a shift on PP2 without Johnny and he carried the puck into the O-zone, which is a bit of a shocker for me. It was a successful entry, too.
Am I way off base? This wouldn't be my first bad take.
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Yes, he got lazy riding Johnny’s coattail
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03-27-2021, 03:43 PM
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#71
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowlord
I'm going to throw this out there and probably get a lot of flak for it... but I wonder if Monahan's earlier development into a proper #1C was negatively affected by playing with Johnny so much.
In his first year before Johnny joined the team, people were comparing Monahan's style (in junior?) to to Jonathan Toews. But then Johnny was such a great puck distributor and Mony's shot was so deadly effective, that Mony became accustomed to going to the open spots where Johnny could get him the puck. As a consequence of extended scoring success in that role, the rest of his game didn't really develop, things like battling along the boards and the defensive side of his game.
Now, after 5-6 years of playing shotgun to Johnny, Mony has developed a reputation for being the sniper and not an offensive threat on his own.
We've seen Monahan on the PK recently, and I saw him take a shift on PP2 without Johnny and he carried the puck into the O-zone, which is a bit of a shocker for me. It was a successful entry, too.
Am I way off base? This wouldn't be my first bad take.
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Sean Monahan has never been great with the puck going all the way back to his rookie season. His lack of speed and mobility limits his effectiveness in a lot of areas such as checking, pace, 50/50s and tracking back.
The biggest problem with Sean Monahan in my opinion is that he’s not fast or explosive like Mackinnon or McDavid so he doesn’t have the separation speed needed to create his own shot. He relies on Gaudreau to get quality shots off (not good). He also doesn’t shield the puck well for big man. If you watch the Kopitar’s, the Thornton’s and the Getzlaf’s in their prime, they shield the puck extremely well and can lean on their defender, drawing double teams, opening up lanes, creating time and space for their linemates. Monahan doesn’t have this element either.
If you want to be an elite center in this league, you need something that makes you stand out. I personally don’t care if it’s speed or size, but you need one or the other. Or I guess you could be like Crosby or Toews who sort have a blend of both, but their work ethic and competitiveness are at such a high level, that it makes them extremely difficult to play against. Monahan lacks all of these traits; so at the end of the day, he just ends up being just a guy in the slot waiting for a pass that may or may not come to him.
Some people may not like this take, but it’s what I’ve seen since his early years as a Flame. It’s the same reason I’m not surprised by his sudden fall in production.
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