This team needs a star centre and we have the pieces to get one.

[dissentowner]

I still like this roster as built, I think this group can win if they are given the chance but unfortunately the coach is neutering that chance. Why BT can't see what is so bloody obvious is beyond me except he must suspect he won't get another shot at changing coaches without meeting the ax himself. In other words this is just going to be a wasted season unless someone with the power sacks BT and a new GM comes in and makes sweeping changes to the coaching staff. I just don't see that happening.

[Hackey]

The problem with adding an elite center (if you can even find one) is that not only are you losing some big assets but you have to also fit the player into the cap. If we add an 8 million dollar player who are we sending out? You likely fill one hole and create another.

[Icon]

I still like the Cozens for Monahan discussion (with pieces added to make cap work and counter that, etc), and think it makes sense both ways.

Trades seem like they'll be tough to manage until there's no quarantine required though

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

I think I’d prefer :
Gaudreau Lindholm Dube
Tkachuk Monahan Bennett

Tkachuk Monahan Bennett or Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane?

The latter is more productive IMO

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Tkachuk Monahan Bennett or Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane?

The latter is more productive IMO

I like Backlund’s current linemates. And now, assuming Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube, you’ve left Monahan with who? Lucic and Bennett? That’s a horrible match.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I like Backlund’s current linemates. And now, assuming Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube, you’ve left Monahan with who? Lucic and Bennett? That’s a horrible match.

Exactly my point.
Monahan can't even carry the 3rd line but people think he's more important than Backlund.

While Backlund gets played with plugs like Lucic and they've been our best line over 4-5 games.

Monahan has to play with Gaudreau because he'd be useless anywhere else in the lineup. That's not a good attribute for the guy everyone defends and calls our #1 centre.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Exactly my point.
Monahan can't even carry the 3rd line but people think he's more important than Backlund.

While Backlund gets played with plugs like Lucic and they've been our best line over 4-5 games.

Monahan has to play with Gaudreau because he'd be useless anywhere else in the lineup. That's not a good attribute for the guy everyone defends and calls our #1 centre.

Not saying baclund isn't good just that if the Flames take a step back this year will he be this good for how long? He's approaching his mid 30s. A short retool waste any prime years he has left

Monahan also won't bring huge value in a trade that is for a proven center. Maybe cozens that was earlier mentioned but we probably have to take a bad contract back. Also if we trade Monahan for cozens are we a playoff team? Doubt it so why keep gio and backlund

If we take a step back they should be first to go. They will get you good value and they are aging

[flamesgod]

Or they could just try swap the top 2 centres.

Gaudreau Lindholm Bennett
Tkachuk Monahan Dube
Lucic Backlund Mangiapane

I’d like to see Gaudreau play with a centre that can keep up with him. I really want to see if Lindholm Gaudreau could become dynamic.

Another option:
Gaudreau Lindholm Bennett
Tkachuk Backlund Lucic
Dube Monahan Mangiapane

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Not saying baclund isn't good just that if the Flames take a step back this year will he be this good for how long? He's approaching his mid 30s. A short retool waste any prime years he has left

Monahan also won't bring huge value in a trade that is for a proven center. Maybe cozens that was earlier mentioned but we probably have to take a bad contract back. Also if we trade Monahan for cozens are we a playoff team? Doubt it so why keep gio and backlund

If we take a step back they should be first to go. They will get you good value and they are aging

I don't disagree, especially if we miss the playoffs or get bounced quickly again.
I was up for trading Gio after his Norris season and don't get me wrong, I'm a big Gio fan.
This team has a bad history of holding on to players too long.

If this is my video game, I trade Monahan for a first line RW now.
Run with Lindholm & Backlund as the top 2 centers this season and consider trading Backlund/Gio + whoever in the off-season.
Through those trades or free agents we can replenish the centre depth and keep Lindholm as #1.

Until we get that miraculous top 4 drafted centre, I don't think we'll get anyone better than Lindholm there, so we should build out from that and strengthen other areas.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I don't disagree, especially if we miss the playoffs or get bounced quickly again.
I was up for trading Gio after his Norris season and don't get me wrong, I'm a big Gio fan.
This team has a bad history of holding on to players too long.

If this is my video game, I trade Monahan for a first line RW now.
Run with Lindholm & Backlund as the top 2 centers this season and consider trading Backlund/Gio + whoever in the off-season.
Through those trades or free agents we can replenish the centre depth and keep Lindholm as #1.

Until we get that miraculous top 4 drafted centre, I don't think we'll get anyone better than Lindholm there, so we should build out from that and strengthen other areas.

I agree, then Bennett would get moved to 3C.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I don't disagree, especially if we miss the playoffs or get bounced quickly again.
I was up for trading Gio after his Norris season and don't get me wrong, I'm a big Gio fan.
This team has a bad history of holding on to players too long.

If this is my video game, I trade Monahan for a first line RW now.
Run with Lindholm & Backlund as the top 2 centers this season and consider trading Backlund/Gio + whoever in the off-season.
Through those trades or free agents we can replenish the centre depth and keep Lindholm as #1.

Until we get that miraculous top 4 drafted centre, I don't think we'll get anyone better than Lindholm there, so we should build out from that and strengthen other areas.

If Bennett decides to resign that might work too.

I just look at this team and think why are we not getting better. Imo the biggest reason is gio is no longer a superstar and is just a good defense man. If he was Norris good still adding good guys like dube Mangiapane Rasmus and valimaki should have this team much better. But our best player is no longer our best player. Backlund is great too but he closing into that territory

We might not get first overall but trading gio and backlund for picks gets us into the lottery. Might be our best bet

[FanIn80]

Hmm... I wonder how we're ever going to get our hands on a 30-goal scoring, point per game star center?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Or they could just try swap the top 2 centres.

Gaudreau Lindholm Bennett
Tkachuk Monahan Dube
Lucic Backlund Mangiapane

I’d like to see Gaudreau play with a centre that can keep up with him. I really want to see if Lindholm Gaudreau could become dynamic.

Another option:
Gaudreau Lindholm Bennett
Tkachuk Backlund Lucic
Dube Monahan Mangiapane

I like your first options. I think Dube provides the hustle, Tkachuk loves to pass from behind the net (and right now never has a guy there) and Monahan loves to get a pass in the slot. And each line has a defensive conscience, which you really need, since the offence often starts with a good defensive play.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I'm not against trading Monahan but I just don't see the return being that great. Why trade a 27 good center and keep a 32 year old good center in backlund. I'd be ok to trade backlund for a late first or 2nd a decent prospect.

Same goes for Gio. If the Flames sell at the deadline he may ask to be moved. I'd move him for picks or prospects too.

Moving these 2 for picks and prospects changes alot of this franchise. We don't need to trade for a elite player if we draft 1. If we move those 2 we are probably going to get a top 8 pick and a good crack at top 3 in the lottery. This also fixes any cap issues and any expansion draft issues. Depending on guys like Bennett hanifin and valimski we may not miss gio and backlund as much as we think. We aren't trading Norris gio we would be trading 37 year old gio. Hes still good but he isn't the difference maker he once was. Why not trade these 2 and see how it goes?

I said this when the Flames traded iggy and Jay bo and kipper retired. Lots said this is going to be a painful rebuild we just lost iggy kipper and Jay bo. I said Jay bo is overrated and iggy and kipper aren't 2004 iggy and kipper. They aren't as good as they once were. We might not miss them that much. 1 bad year Flames were back in playoffs. I feel like the same could be said about gio and backlund now. Still good but at least with gio he's nowhere near his prime

No lottery team picking in the top 8 will have any interest in giving up its first round pick for Gio or Backlund.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, we had the pieces to get a star center....they're called draft picks, but through a combination of dumb luck and incompetence the Flames never seem to be able draft the right guy.

Meanwhile some teams snap them up at the draft like they know what they're doing or something. Coincidentally, those are more often than not the same teams you see at or near the top of the standings most years.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Hmm... I wonder how we're ever going to get our hands on a 30-goal scoring, point per game star center?

I just want one that doesn't take Xanax before the game.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, we had the pieces to get a star center....they're called draft picks, but through a combination of dumb luck and incompetence the Flames never seem to be able draft the right guy.

Meanwhile some teams snap them up at the draft like they know what they're doing or something. Coincidentally, those are more often than not the same teams you see at or near the top of the standings most years.

TBF, who are the top centres? McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon all went #1. Eichler, Draisaitl, went 2,3. Guys like Point - everyone took a pass on, not just Calgary (and TB already had a first overall C).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Exactly my point.
Monahan can't even carry the 3rd line but people think he's more important than Backlund.

While Backlund gets played with plugs like Lucic and they've been our best line over 4-5 games.

Monahan has to play with Gaudreau because he'd be useless anywhere else in the lineup. That's not a good attribute for the guy everyone defends and calls our #1 centre.

Don’t twist my comment into “Monahan can’t carry a line”. Frankly, he’s never really been tested on that. He distributes the puck well and has a high hockey IQ, which in the past, has led him to pass to Gaudreau because more often than not it is the correct decision at the time.

Sure, Gaudreau is the shifty guy and Monahan is the scorer. But it doesn’t Backlund’s better. They are just different. Monahan is Phil Esposito and Gaudreau is Ken Hodge.

[FanIn80]

Going back to 2003, I count:
4 Star Players
7 Impact Players
9 First Round-Busts

Spoiler!

NHL Totals Only

2020 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2020 Entry 24 1 Connor Zary C Kamloops Blazers [WHL]

2019 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2019 Entry 26 1 Jakob Pelletier L Moncton Wildcats [QMJHL]

2018 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2018 Entry 105 4 Martin Pospisil C Sioux City Musketeers [USHL]

2017 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2017 Entry 16 1 Juuso Valimaki D Tri-City Americans [WHL] 38 1 7 8 18

2016 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2016 Entry 6 1 Matthew Tkachuk L London Knights [OHL] 307 99 146 245 315
2016 Entry 56 2 Dillon Dube C Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 81 9 17 26 16

2015 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2015 Entry 53 2 Rasmus Andersson D Barrie Colts [OHL] 174 9 39 48 92
2015 Entry 60 2 Oliver Kylington D Farjestads BK Karlstad [SweHL] 87 5 10 15 26
2015 Entry 166 6 Andrew Mangiapane L Barrie Colts [OHL] 136 29 23 52 40

2014 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2014 Entry 4 1 Sam Bennett C Kingston Frontenacs [OHL] 377 65 66 131 304

2013 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2013 Entry 6 1 Sean Monahan C Ottawa 67's [OHL] 555 196 226 422 125

2012 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2012 Entry 21 1 Mark Jankowski C Stanstead College (Quebec) 221 37 30 67 59

2011 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2011 Entry 13 1 Sven Baertschi L Portland Winterhawks [WHL] 291 66 72 138 78
2011 Entry 104 4 Johnny Gaudreau L Dubuque Fighting Saints [USHL] 478 159 301 460 100

2010 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2010 Entry 64 3 Max Reinhart C Kootenay Ice [WHL] 23 1 4 5 6
2010 Entry 133 5 Micheal Ferland L Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL] 335 60 74 134 200

2009 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2009 Entry 23 1 Tim Erixon D Skelleftea AIK [SEL] 93 2 12 14 38

2008 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2008 Entry 25 1 Greg Nemisz C Windsor Spitfires [OHL] 15 0 1 1 0
2008 Entry 78 3 Lance Bouma L Vancouver Giants [WHL] 357 30 46 76 210
2008 Entry 114 4 T.J. Brodie D Saginaw Spirit [OHL] 649 48 222 270 194

2007 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2007 Entry 24 1 Mikael Backlund C Vasteras IK [Swe-1] 704 148 225 373 343

2006 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2006 Entry 26 1 Leland Irving G Everett Silvertips [WHL] 13 0 1 1 0

2005 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2005 Entry 26 1 Matt Pelech R Sarnia Sting [OHL] 13 1 3 4 38

2004 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2004 Entry 24 1 Kris Chucko R Salmon Arm Silverbacks [BCHL] 2 0 0 0 2
2004 Entry 70 3 Brandon Prust L London Knights [OHL] 486 40 75 115 1036
2004 Entry 173 6 Adam Pardy D Cape Breton Screaming Eagles [QMJHL] 342 4 48 52 269

2003 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2003 Entry 9 1 Dion Phaneuf D Red Deer Rebels [WHL] 1048 137 357 494 1345

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Going back to 2003, I count:
4 Star Players
7 Impact Players
9 First Round-Busts

Spoiler!

NHL Totals Only

2020 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2020 Entry 24 1 Connor Zary C Kamloops Blazers [WHL]

2019 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2019 Entry 26 1 Jakob Pelletier L Moncton Wildcats [QMJHL]

2018 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2018 Entry 105 4 Martin Pospisil C Sioux City Musketeers [USHL]

2017 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2017 Entry 16 1 Juuso Valimaki D Tri-City Americans [WHL] 38 1 7 8 18

2016 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2016 Entry 6 1 Matthew Tkachuk L London Knights [OHL] 307 99 146 245 315
2016 Entry 56 2 Dillon Dube C Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 81 9 17 26 16

2015 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2015 Entry 53 2 Rasmus Andersson D Barrie Colts [OHL] 174 9 39 48 92
2015 Entry 60 2 Oliver Kylington D Farjestads BK Karlstad [SweHL] 87 5 10 15 26
2015 Entry 166 6 Andrew Mangiapane L Barrie Colts [OHL] 136 29 23 52 40

2014 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2014 Entry 4 1 Sam Bennett C Kingston Frontenacs [OHL] 377 65 66 131 304

2013 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2013 Entry 6 1 Sean Monahan C Ottawa 67's [OHL] 555 196 226 422 125

2012 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2012 Entry 21 1 Mark Jankowski C Stanstead College (Quebec) 221 37 30 67 59

2011 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2011 Entry 13 1 Sven Baertschi L Portland Winterhawks [WHL] 291 66 72 138 78
2011 Entry 104 4 Johnny Gaudreau L Dubuque Fighting Saints [USHL] 478 159 301 460 100

2010 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2010 Entry 64 3 Max Reinhart C Kootenay Ice [WHL] 23 1 4 5 6
2010 Entry 133 5 Micheal Ferland L Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL] 335 60 74 134 200

2009 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2009 Entry 23 1 Tim Erixon D Skelleftea AIK [SEL] 93 2 12 14 38

2008 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2008 Entry 25 1 Greg Nemisz C Windsor Spitfires [OHL] 15 0 1 1 0
2008 Entry 78 3 Lance Bouma L Vancouver Giants [WHL] 357 30 46 76 210
2008 Entry 114 4 T.J. Brodie D Saginaw Spirit [OHL] 649 48 222 270 194

2007 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2007 Entry 24 1 Mikael Backlund C Vasteras IK [Swe-1] 704 148 225 373 343

2006 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2006 Entry 26 1 Leland Irving G Everett Silvertips [WHL] 13 0 1 1 0

2005 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2005 Entry 26 1 Matt Pelech R Sarnia Sting [OHL] 13 1 3 4 38

2004 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2004 Entry 24 1 Kris Chucko R Salmon Arm Silverbacks [BCHL] 2 0 0 0 2
2004 Entry 70 3 Brandon Prust L London Knights [OHL] 486 40 75 115 1036
2004 Entry 173 6 Adam Pardy D Cape Breton Screaming Eagles [QMJHL] 342 4 48 52 269

2003 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2003 Entry 9 1 Dion Phaneuf D Red Deer Rebels [WHL] 1048 137 357 494 1345

You are forgetting Fox, who’s an impact player and led in part to Lindholm/Hanifin. And you are being generous in ignoring 2013’s other first rounders Poirier and Klimchuk.