As much as we hate Bieksa as a Nucklehead and a Ducks, he's on the money about the Flames. The D has been soft ever since Regehr got traded. Actually, the Flames D got soft when JBo and Butler were introduced to the Flames. Besides Tkachuk, the forwards are fairly ineffective late in the season and into the playoffs when the going gets tough. Nobody wants to get into the dirty areas - well maybe except for Lucic and Bennett - if and when they show up. Skilled buttery soft team!
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As much as we hate Bieksa as a Nucklehead and a Ducks, he's on the money about the Flames. The D has been soft ever since Regehr got traded. Actually, the Flames D got soft when JBo and Butler were introduced to the Flames. Besides Tkachuk, the forwards are fairly ineffective late in the season and into the playoffs when the going gets tough. Nobody wants to get into the dirty areas - well maybe except for Lucic and Bennett - if and when they show up. Skilled buttery soft team!
Really. He was on the money?
What was their identity during the regular season two years ago when the finished 1st in the west?
He didn’t mention any of this.
No. He simply brought up irrelevant players from the past because he is emotionally trolling Flames fans with nostalgia. Good job. It worked.
Using a construct like identity to explain the problems with their play is a false flag. Too often they’re mentally weak. Firing the coach and getting another new face preaching another “identity” hasn’t helped and isn’t an answer.
I don’t think Tkachuk is mentally weak.
I think he has slowly pulled the team mentality out of this state the past two years. I think that’s why he’s talked about as captain material and why he was sorely missed in the playoffs.
Calling a team with 1/4 of their forwards who play as physical anyone and who will fight just about anyone in the league “buttery soft” is laughable and only plays into the notion of “identity” being a media/fan cliche.
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Bieksa’s comments are one step below meaningless to me. Couldn’t be less relevant to today’s game.
Put me in the camp that he’s an awful analyst, too. I find his vibe really off putting.
He articulates himself well but his perspective is based in a past era of the game that isn't relevant in today's high skill game.
There are no bruiser lines or pairings in the league anymore unless they're highly skilled players that can do both.
Game has simply gotten too fast for the physicality-first game. And no opponent is going to 'play down' to a slow bruiser line they're just going to look to expose it with speed and skill.
I look at Vegas as a consistent model of this era. Quick transition, aggressive forecheck and rolls four lines. The Flames are clearly trying to emulate that, they just need more consistent energy in their game from period to period and a better fourth line.
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I look at Vegas as a consistent model of this era. Quick transition, aggressive forecheck and rolls four lines. The Flames are clearly trying to emulate that, they just need more consistent energy in their game from period to period and a better fourth line.
Well said.
I'll add that the fourth line may come around; there's enough talent on the roster even as currently constructed.
I note that except for Lucic (who is a notorious slow starter) and Bennett, the real disappointments at forward have all been the new guys added to the team: Leivo, Simon, Nordstrom. It shouldn't surprise anyone that three guys who don't know the team or the system, and had a short training camp and zero exhibition games to acclimatize themselves, are ineffective out of the gate.
I don't expect much from Nordstrom based on his record, but I believe Leivo and Simon will come around if given a bit of runway. It's a pity that providing that runway is costing the team points, but every team in the league is in the same boat. Not an easy year for working new players into the lineup, unless they just click right away (like Nestorov seems to be doing).
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He articulates himself well but his perspective is based in a past era of the game that isn't relevant in today's high skill game.
There are no bruiser lines or pairings in the league anymore unless they're highly skilled players that can do both.
Game has simply gotten too fast for the physicality-first game. And no opponent is going to 'play down' to a slow bruiser line they're just going to look to expose it with speed and skill.
I look at Vegas as a consistent model of this era. Quick transition, aggressive forecheck and rolls four lines. The Flames are clearly trying to emulate that, they just need more consistent energy in their game from period to period and a betterI fourth line.
100% If you listen to his podcast his bravado and speech is a laughable tragic comedy without Sportsnet and colleagues structuring him.
Vegas is a good example of the modern game. They also have attention to detail on 50/50 pucks to generate turnovers.
In San Jose we track offensive rushes for and offensive rushes against. Tracking and back-checking influences rushes. Vegas creates most of their chances by turning pucks over. That data is tracked by analytics. Odd-man rushes created by turnovers in the neutral zone is just another example of how specific you can get with analytics.”
Most teams are tracking these stats in their own way, to better understand the oppositions game and their response. But it’s hard, defining puck battles and 50/50 or otherwise and who won them is fluid and can enable subjectivity.
On the surface, the task seems easy enough. Statistics are already kept for faceoffs, which are just a particular breed of puck battle. It's simple: the team that gains possession off the faceoff has won the faceoff. The issue is one of identification. Identifying a faceoff is easy: the play has stopped and the linesman drops the puck to re-start play. There are two clear players involved who oppose each other: the winner of the faceoff is the one whose team gains possession, even if his teammates played a key role in gaining that possession. There is a clear beginning to a faceoff and a somewhat muddled, but still identifiable, ending.
Identifying a puck battle is far more difficult. When does a puck battle begin? When does it end? It's a problem of segmentation, which is a common problem for hockey statistics.
Being aware and able to dominate puck battles is the epitome of working smart. Being overly aggressive on a puck battle can have be the wrong decision at times. I think this is part of what Peters instilled in the Flames to get success.
For Peters, faceoffs are an easy way to start the conversation about situational awareness. While he was in Carolina, Peters talked about how faceoffs were your team’s first 50/50 puck battle in every shift. As a coach, Peters says you can tell if your team is engaged emotionally by how they respond when the puck is dropped.
Vega’s ability to win puck battles on the forecheck and back check let them capitalize on mistakes. I think a lot of the energy that drove them was born out of being a collection of misfits on an expansion franchise that teams didn’t know what to expect because they were new. This has obviously changed since their 1st season, but so has their personnel.
Toronto did a good job of disrupting and winning puck battles against the Flames Tuesday. It disrupted their ability to consistently connect plays into shot attempts hitting the net.
This is the mental fortitude the Flames need to persevere through. They did a reasonable job of this Tuesday after the 1st and didn’t wilt. It’s part of the team growth in the early season. They should be learning from their mistakes.
I'll always remember Bieksa as the fake tough guy who let Ferland demolish him and the Canucks like a crane crushing a fly over and over again.
It was hilarious watching Bieksa going into corners, looking frightfully over his shoulders, and not doing anything about it.
That's how I identify Bieksa.
There are different types of tough players. Bieksa was always tough when tangling with non-tough guys. Whenever he got involved with players that could actually handle themselves he was really good at ensuring that linesemen were between them.
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There are different types of tough players. Bieksa was always tough when tangling with non-tough guys. Whenever he got involved with players that could actually handle themselves he was really good at ensuring that linesemen were between them.
There are different types of tough players. Bieksa was always tough when tangling with non-tough guys. Whenever he got involved with players that could actually handle themselves he was really good at ensuring that linesemen were between them.
Whatever do you mean? He shirks Westgarth via the linesman then goes for that heavyweight Laddy Smid.
Hated Bieksa as a player, much the same way 30 other teams feel about Tkachuk. But actually quite enjoy listening to him. Find him interesting and don't get the same old, same old like some others.
Nothing wrong with what he's saying. 5on5 the forwards seem pretty Meh, outside gaudreau and monahan, generally without any kind of line identity, let alone team identity.
The other lines seem unclear on how to play offence. Is there line supposed to be a rush line, heavy forecheck, whatever??
I hate this concept that the flames have depth at forward.
Leivo, Simon, Bennett, lucic, Ryan, Nordstrom all have ZERO ability in generating anything resembling offence. That's half the forwards on the team. You'd think that they would be relied upon to play energy line type minutes. Heavy, physical, forechecking shifts. Nope, they are no good at that either.
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...I hate this concept that the flames have depth at forward.
Leivo, Simon, Bennett, lucic, Ryan, Nordstrom all have ZERO ability in generating anything resembling offence. That's half the forwards on the team. You'd think that they would be relied upon to play energy line type minutes. Heavy, physical, forechecking shifts. Nope, they are no good at that either.
Well, this is just not true. Derek Ryan was scoring at a 35-point pace last season. If he is the seventh or eighth best scoring forward on your roster, then that is pretty deep.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Actually couldn't agree more with him. The team, with a few exceptions (who don't really use those exceptions, like Sam "I play 7 games a year" Bennett) are a team of David Mosses.
And while I agree with some, this isn't the team of a decade ago and nor is the game, there are teams out there that play ten times more grittily like Boston or Philly.
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Well, this is just not true. Derek Ryan was scoring at a 35-point pace last season. If he is the seventh or eighth best scoring forward on your roster, then that is pretty deep.
Ah, the legend of Derek Ryan and all this flames forward depth.
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