[Rumour] NHL plans to allow arguments to be heard on conds of Lucic/Neal trade (arbitration?) - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Oling_Roachinen · 07-13-2020, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiggs96

In 1994-95 the teams all went through training camp. There was a schedule for all teams to play 84 games...

I don't consider games cancelled if the season hasn't started and that's obvious what the point was.

If you really feel the need for pedantry, none of those seasons had games cancelled after the season started. Huge difference that ruins the comparisons.

ForeverFlameFan · 07-13-2020, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torture

Honestly, pro-rating and the season ending was probably the best case scenario.

Do we really think Neal (sorry, McDavid) would have scored two more goals over the rest of the season on that no good team and with the way he was playing? I had given up all hope of the Flames getting that pick before the season was cancelled.

(Arbitrator, if you're reading this, Neal is really skilled and would have easily scored 2 more goals in only 11 games with McDavid and Drai cause they are the bestest. Two would have been too easy, he probably would have had 5!)

To play devil's advocate, Neal has been playing hot garbage outside of one month.

But, thanks to that hot start he had it would only be fair to prorate the season. Like others have said, if you are going to prorate the performance bonuses, then you should have to prorate any performance-based conditional picks.

Bingo · 07-13-2020, 11:32 AM

Even just having this up in the air is pretty delicious.

So many Oiler media and fan groups had quickly come out and called this issue closed. I think Holland even referred to it as closed.

Heck even a handful of posters on this site were hammering on any one that had hope when it came to this matter.

So yeah it's interesting that there is a debate around this.

getbak · 07-13-2020, 12:12 PM

I was thinking about how they could use the 70/82 ratio that they're using for prorating stats to settle this.

Instead of looking at how far the pick is from the start of the draft, look at it from the end of the draft. Right now, the Oilers 3rd round pick is slotted in at 85th overall (this could change depending on the results of the playoffs). There are 217 total picks, so the pick is 132 prior to the final pick.

If you run the 70/82 ratio on 132, you get 113 (70/82nds) and 19 (12/82nds). So, you give the Flames the 113th pick from the end and the Oilers the 19th pick from the end.

That would give the Flames the 104th overall pick and the Oilers the 198th (or maybe 105 and 199 because you're creating an extra pick as well).

It doesn't really harm the other teams by creating an extra pick in the draft because anyone who has their 7th rounder moved back one spot will also have their 3rd or 4th rounder moved up one.

It's not as good as getting the 85th pick for either team, but it's better than getting nothing, so it seems like a relatively fair compromise.

albertGQ · 07-13-2020, 01:16 PM

Since we traded our third and fourth round picks this year. I’d really love either a 3rd or 4th rounder.

Crown Royal · 07-13-2020, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Since we traded our third and fourth round picks this year. I’d really love either a 3rd or 4th rounder.

We acquired San Jose's 4th in the Frolik trade

djsFlames · 07-13-2020, 01:34 PM

I like how this forces Oiler supporters to openly recognize and justify how awful Neal is after living in the "Neal: First Line Scorer" fantasy between October and November. Now the story must be that he was never consistent enough to notch those extra two goals in a dozen games.

Tasty stuff indeed.

I vote Flames for the Oilers third and Oilers for the final third round pick.

YourMother · 07-24-2020, 11:36 PM

I have it on good authority from a member of one of the organizations that the NHL has told the Oilers and Flames that they are to figure out a resolution to this situation themselves, and if they can’t then the NHL will step in.
Obviously Oilers are taking the stance that “James Neal didn’t score 20 goals”, and the Flames argument is about prorating the season.
Tricky situation and it seems like the NHL is pretty much saying they are too busy to deal with this and to figure it out themselves.
Not big news just insight into what is going on and why it hasn’t been resolved yet.

lazypucker · 07-24-2020, 11:59 PM

If I were to guess, the Flames will get the Oilers pick, and the league will make them trade draft positions in the later rounds... I think that is the easiest (and fairest) solution given the situation.

Samonadreau · 07-25-2020, 12:03 AM

Flames take Oilers 4th instead?

dammage79 · 07-25-2020, 12:14 AM

Jesse puljujarvi will do.

getbak · 07-25-2020, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dammage79

Jesse puljujarvi will do.

dino7c · 07-25-2020, 01:28 AM

I'm shocked so many people think the Flames have no case...everything else is being pro-rated

EverfresH15 · 07-25-2020, 01:35 AM

I also, have it on good authority to tell you that everyone already knew that.

BeltlineFan · 07-25-2020, 08:35 AM

As long as we get more than nothing, Oilers fans will be upset and I will be happy.

Textcritic · 07-25-2020, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazypucker

If I were to guess, the Flames will get the Oilers pick, and the league will make them trade draft positions in the later rounds... I think that is the easiest (and fairest) solution given the situation.

No. The easiest and fairest solution would be for the Oilers to surrender their third pick to the Flames.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Yrebmi · 07-25-2020, 10:16 AM

If Neal were to score a goal or two in the Oilers play in losses it would certainly help our position. Slim chance of that though.

pseudoreality · 07-25-2020, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'm shocked so many people think the Flames have no case...everything else is being pro-rated

Are there any other trades in a similar position?

Front line staff are not getting their salary prorated.

70/82 bonus prorating is for both games played or performance and then the amount received is also prorated 70/82 as I understand from this Forbes article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanlak.../#737da9d456f6

What is 70/82 of a 3rd round pick?

Enoch Root · 07-25-2020, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

Are there any other trades in a similar position?

Front line staff are not getting their salary prorated.

70/82 bonus prorating is for both games played or performance and then the amount received is also prorated 70/82 as I understand from this Forbes article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanlak.../#737da9d456f6

What is 70/82 of a 3rd round pick?

There is no definitive valuation table for draft picks, but there are multiple versions that are more or less the same. Using one of those, and assuming the pick in question is a mid-3rd, 70/82s of that equals a pick at the end of the 3rd round, and 12/82 of that is equal to a pick at the end of the 7th round.

So there you go: Flames get a 3rd and the Oilers get an extra pick at the end of the draft.

Textcritic · 07-25-2020, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There is no definitive valuation table for draft picks, but there are multiple versions that are more or less the same. Using one of those, and assuming the pick in question is a mid-3rd, 70/82s of that equals a pick at the end of the 3rd round, and 12/82 of that is equal to a pick at the end of the 7th round.

So there you go: Flames get a 3rd and the Oilers get an extra pick at the end of the draft.

So, in this scenario do the Oilers get to keep their own third? Or is it surrendered to the Flames and moved to the end of the Round?

I think any instance in which the Oilers draft in the third round is unacceptable. The only way this works is if the pick at the end of the draft is in place of the Oilers's third-round pick.