Cartoons upset Danish Muslims

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by azzarish

Yes, it is crazy what is happening, and I don't agree with it for one second, but what you have to understand Islam is currently an emotionally charged religion especially as many Muslims feel the West is unfairly treating them with the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is a lot of anger, bad blood and emotion over this. Add to that the Israeli/Palestine conflict. It's just all created a lot of hatred, but not amongst everyone, just a minority, and unfortunately it is always the minority that comes to the forefront and tarnishes the religion as a whole. So all I'm saying is why give motivation to spur more violence to this minority when you know the smallest thing can spark off full blown riots, demonstrations and flag burnings. It's like adding fuel to the fire, and giving even the average muslim who an excuse to go out and run riot.

so its the Minority of people in Iran, Iraq or countless other Muslim nations? So then given the oppotunity to change that, why dont the majority vote people in who are...oh...less hardline? Is it because the hardline wont let them vote? I call BS on your theory. Religion is first and foremost in their minds...their religion and nothing else. The fact that a simple cartoon that does nothing more than depict a religious leader, sets off violent actions around the world by Muslims is ludicrous. IF I was a peace loving Muslim I would be abhored and ashamed by these actions, so much so that I would be forced to question the validity of that sect. You certainly dont hear much of the peace loving roar do you? A few blips here and there instead of the MAJORITY standing up to the rebels in their cloaks.
IF the minority is a problem do something about it.

[Cowperson]

Meanwhile, in Iran,

Iran's largest selling newspaper has announced it is holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

"It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust," Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper, which is published by Tehran's conservative-run municipality, said on Monday.

He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression.

"The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let's see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons," he asserted.

Iran's fiercely anti-Israeli regime is supportive of so-called Holocaust revisionist historians, who maintain the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews as well as other groups during World War II has been either invented or exaggerated.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...1F354F1D9A.htm

Cowperson

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by azzarish

many Muslims feel the West is unfairly treating them with the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is a lot of anger, bad blood and emotion over this. Add to that the Israeli/Palestine conflict.

The thing is I could at least understand demonstrations, anger and even rioting because of those grievances, but this Danish newspaper thing seems like a whole lot of nothing yet the fanatics are going wild about it.

There are all sorts of legitimate things for Muslims to be ****ed about so why riot over this? It just seems so trivial compared to the legitimate beefs like the wars and occupations and whatnot.

[Cheese]

I thought Id check out a forum devoted to Muslims to see what they were saying. An interesting mix of opinion and grammar. Some are truly appaled and some not so....

Sunniforum

we are not like the christians who allowed for their faith to be ridiculed and watered down, when our loved ones are insulted we don't let that slide. this has nothing to do with being stuck in the 12th centuary .

salam ppl....

people get a grip n cum on n spread da word ISLAM n memba ur DEEN!!!!!!!! (insha'allah)
may allah (swt) bless all the muslim ummah ameen.
anyway ppl we know as muslims that no one can draw muhammed (pbuh) but i dn't knw y idiot ppl draw that they r jus totally racists n stupid.

may Allah (swt) punish dem so dat they never forget it n dey regret wot they av dun is wrong..

ppl we all know that this is going to go around the world for a long time but as muslims we all know that this jus not acceptable in islam n will never be, also remember Allah (swt) is always looking at every one so plz remember to spread da word ISLAM..

PLEASE MUSLIMS STAND UP FOR YOUR RELIGION PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

WASSALAM

May be we can all learn from this? its about time we muslims call people openly to islam and star establsing the deen as it should be, no wonder people have a bad image of islam when places like britain have asian ghettos where the 1st langugue is urdu -punjaabi gudjraati ect , muslims do not ghettoise islam , open your houses and invite people in , i mean non muslims, marry your daughters to english men and vice verca, intigration is part of the deen didnt you know?
Islam is for everyone , and by intermarrying into british society we will acheve great things INSHALLAH.

and a link to a good read with a little more balance..

Islam vs Freedom of expression

I hope the majority manage to clean up the image.

[Resolute 14]

The irony out of all of this is that Muslims are very openly using their freedom of expression to protest someone else's freedom of expression.

Talk about hypocricy.

I think the most hilarious photo printed was the one of the Muslim women, with only their eyes showing, tearing apart a Danish flag. An entire gender that is denied it's own individuality and right to express itself, except with the permission of their male superiors, being allowed to tear apart a flag is oddly hilarious.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I thought Id check out a forum devoted to Muslims to see what they were saying. An interesting mix of opinion and grammar. Some are truly appaled and some not so....

Sunniforum

Wow, very interesting thread over there.

[Sunniforum Moderator: Some of your comments have been removed as they are in violation of Sunniforum rules in maintaining utmost respect for the beloved Prophet Muhammad . Everyone is welcome to discuss freely as long as respect is maintained.]

I think I need to digest that a bit.. and maybe a few beers, then wade in!! With utmost respect... of course...

[HOZ]

Steyn on the Danish flag and consulate burnings

I long ago lost count of the number of times I've switched on the TV and seen crazy guys jumping up and down in the street, torching the Stars and Stripes and yelling ''Death to the Great Satan!'' Or torching the Union Jack and yelling ''Death to the Original If Now Somewhat Arthritic And Semi-Retired Satan!'' But I never thought I'd switch on the TV and see the excitable young lads jumping up and down in Jakarta, Lahore, Aden, Hebron, etc., etc., torching the flag of Denmark.


Denmark! Even if you were overcome with a sudden urge to burn the Danish flag, where do you get one in a hurry in Gaza? Well, OK, that's easy: the nearest European Union Humanitarian Aid and Intifada-Funding Branch Office. But where do you get one in an obscure town on the Punjabi plain on a Thursday afternoon? If I had a sudden yen to burn the Yemeni or Sudanese flag on my village green, I haven't a clue how I'd get hold of one in this part of New Hampshire. Say what you like about the Islamic world, but they show tremendous initiative and energy and inventiveness, at least when it comes to threatening death to the infidels every 48 hours for one perceived offense or another. If only it could be channeled into, say, a small software company, what an economy they'd have.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn...t-steyn05.html

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

The irony out of all of this is that Muslims are very openly using their freedom of expression to protest someone else's freedom of expression.

Talk about hypocricy.

I think the most hilarious photo printed was the one of the Muslim women, with only their eyes showing, tearing apart a Danish flag. An entire gender that is denied it's own individuality and right to express itself, except with the permission of their male superiors, being allowed to tear apart a flag is oddly hilarious.

Good point. The whole thing is hypocritcal of course.
I was just thinking too though, now the Danes have picked a fight with the Muslim world as well as Canada due to that disputed land. Watchout Denmark! Us Canadians can get very riled up too, check your email Denmark, check your email

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

There was an image of the Prophet on my grilled cheese today. I ate it with some ketchup. Am I going to hell?

No young Padawan. Since nobody knows what the prophet looked like, it was actually I. Use the force Frank. And next time, have some fries with my countenance.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Cheese

so its the Minority of people in Iran, Iraq or countless other Muslim nations? So then given the oppotunity to change that, why dont the majority vote people in who are...oh...less hardline? Is it because the hardline wont let them vote? I call BS on your theory. Religion is first and foremost in their minds...their religion and nothing else. The fact that a simple cartoon that does nothing more than depict a religious leader, sets off violent actions around the world by Muslims is ludicrous. IF I was a peace loving Muslim I would be abhored and ashamed by these actions, so much so that I would be forced to question the validity of that sect. You certainly dont hear much of the peace loving roar do you? A few blips here and there instead of the MAJORITY standing up to the rebels in their cloaks.
IF the minority is a problem do something about it.

Because it's not the minority. The majority are poor. Iran's president won on his appeal to the impoverished of Iran after years of reformation. A large swathe of students and intellectuals lament this sea-change, but it doesn't change the fact that most are Muslims (you really have no choice in Iran) and would nonetheless be unhappy with this caricatures.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by fotze

Just come down to earth one time and make it clear.

nobody had a videocamera at the time.

[Cowperson]

Iran's president won on his appeal to the impoverished of Iran after years of reformation. A large swathe of students and intellectuals lament this sea-change,

Actually you don't know that since reform candidates were barred from running against him by the Mullah's running the country.

That censorship extended as well to elections throughout that society.

The Mullahs did that because they were dangerously close to losing their grip on the place.

Cowperson

[Tikk]

To be fair, Many Jews were upset because of Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ movie, and many Christians have protested museums that have displayed paintings that portray Jesus in negative ways.

That said, rioting is going WAY over the top.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Iran's president won on his appeal to the impoverished of Iran after years of reformation. A large swathe of students and intellectuals lament this sea-change,

Actually you don't know that since reform candidates were barred from running against him by the Mullah's running the country.

That censorship extended as well to elections throughout that society.

The Mullahs did that because they were dangerously close to losing their grip on the place.

Cowperson

That's just what I read from some letters, documents, and yeah....blogs from students and some old politicians.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

BBC just ran a story about demonstrations in London. One of the demonstrators was dressed as a suicide bomber.

Isnt it fascinating? Other "demostrants" held signs that read "kill those who insult islam" and were _protected_ by British police. Now it is apparently perfectly okay to incite murder in public. I guess freedom of free speech covers that too Soon stabbings will be okay, because "freedom to use a knife" will cover it... Shows how ######ed the British (and not just British) society has become. Well, I guess after years under the labour government, thats got to be expected...

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by azzarish

The Prophet Mohammed was never violent nor did he have bombs. That was the whole point. I'm not condoning the violence but maybe you should delve a bit deeper in to why the issue has caused so much anger.

Uh oh azzarish, are you saying that the prophet was not a conqueror? Altering the history a bit, are you not?

[MickMcGeough]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Isnt it fascinating? Other "demostrants" held signs that read "kill those who insult islam" and were _protected_ by British police. Now it is apparently perfectly okay to incite murder in public. I guess freedom of free speech covers that too Soon stabbings will be okay, because "freedom to use a knife" will cover it... Shows how ######ed the British (and not just British) society has become. Well, I guess after years under the labour government, thats got to be expected...

I suppose this makes sense if you're one of those people who reads headlines & the captions instead of the actual article.

The police weren't protecting the protesters, they were protecting the city from a riot. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention but these protests have already escalated to violence elsewhere and the priority of the London police was to keep the protests here peaceful. The message certainly wasn't peaceful, but the demonstrations were.

In fact, I can't think of a dumber thing to do than for the police to don some riot gear and start cuffing anyone who's holding a sign that suggests violence. I bet that would go over very well with an angry mob.

[MickMcGeough]

I really don't understand why people are so shocked at the uproar this has caused. Talk to a devout Muslim about their faith before you judge. It's not "just a cartoon".

The cartoon was the 'winner' of a contest put on by the Danish newspaper to depict Muhammad in a caricature. Not only is it a mortal sin to depict Muhammad at all, but it was done in a way that was intended to insult Muslims. Surprise, they're insulted!

Then, for some bizarre reason, a bunch of publications decided to republish the cartoon. They did this knowing these things:
a) The cartoon's very existence was an insult to any Muslim
b) The cartoon was created to be insulting to Muslims
c) The cartoon had already caused a stir in Denmark
Yet in some twisted attempt to assert their own freedom of speech they republished it. Then, the French went ahead and published some more cartoons not only depicting Muhammad but making fun of the Muslims for being upset about it.

Obviously, many protesters have taken this way too far by burning embassies/flags/effigies and calling for murders as an answer to this insult. How they don't see the hypocrisy of their actions is as tragic as the reasons behind the cartoons in the first place. But we have a very angry, very vocal minority here which has been given a cause by these European publications. I just don't understand how people are so shocked at the result.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

I suppose this makes sense if you're one of those people who reads headlines & the captions instead of the actual article.

The police weren't protecting the protesters, they were protecting the city from a riot. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention but these protests have already escalated to violence elsewhere and the priority of the London police was to keep the protests here peaceful. The message certainly wasn't peaceful, but the demonstrations were.

In fact, I can't think of a dumber thing to do than for the police to don some riot gear and start cuffing anyone who's holding a sign that suggests violence. I bet that would go over very well with an angry mob.

Honestly, I dont care if that would go over very well with an angry mob. To incite murder is against the law in pretty much every civilized place on Earth. It is against the British law to incite murder, correct me if I am wrong.

The guy holding that sign should of been arrested, no matter what would other rioters think. The fact that he was not arrested tells me one thing - the police fears so much that they would get accussed of being "intolerant" and what not that they protect those protesters - they protect them against the law.

[Cowperson]

Muslim cleric today convicted in a London court for inciting murder:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/eu...mza/index.html

Londoners have been demanding charges be brought to bear against those carrying placards inciting violence.

The cartoons are now described as an "Israeli Conspiracy" motivated by western anger over the election of Hamas in Palestine . . . . . although the cartoons were actually first published in September, well before that event.

The protest in the northwestern Pakistani city of Peshawar was the largest to date in that Muslim country against the prophet drawings. There were no reports of violence.

Chief Minister Akram Durrani, the province's top elected official who led the rally, demanded the cartoonists "be punished like a terrorist."

"Islam is a religion of peace. It insists that all other religions and faiths should be respected," he told the crowd. "Nobody has the right to insult Islam and hurt the feelings of Muslims."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1289213.shtml

Meanwhile, on another note, humour directed in another direction and the reaction:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/....ap/index.html

Cowperson