Practice October 7 - Bennett promoted to second line - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Flash Walken · 10-07-2019, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bax

Well the point I was making is that a lot of teams are moving guys around the line up at this part of the year. Experimenting, moving guys up and down, etc. Besides, the Bruins were in the cup final last year, it's expected that they would have a great looking line up. It just goes to show you that the gap isn't that large.

Here is a better example. This is what Dallas is rolling with right now- a team that finished 6th in the west last year and made it to game 7 overtime of the second round.

Gurianov - Seguin - Radulov
Janmark - Hintz - Pavelski
Benn - Faksa - Dowling
Cogliano - Gardner - Caamano

I get what you're saying but comparing the flames to other underwhelming rosters and suggesting his point about the offensive depth isn't valid is proving his point, not yours.

To be compared to an elite squad you need an elite talent makeup and the flames are still missing an ingredient up front that would turn them into a team like the bruins.

Coyle has had some down years but his career high is 56 points, and they've got him on their third line.

I want the flames to have that kind of depth and obviously treliving does too or he wouldn't have been in on stone, Zucker and kadri in the last 6 months.

TheScorpion · 10-07-2019, 03:10 PM

Lucic has had some down years but his career high is 62 points, and they've got him on their third line.

The Cobra · 10-07-2019, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Second power play changed up too

That is one bad 2nd PP unit.

Flash Walken · 10-07-2019, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itse

Sam Bennett should EASILY hit 20 if you put him on the 2nd line right now.

2018-19 Michael Frolik played with a 20 goal pace with (mostly) those guys, and while I'm all about defending Frolik, he also has a career s% of just 8.1.

Put Bennett on the 2nd line with Tkachuk and Backlund and give him some PP time (even on the 2nd unit), and he either hits at least 25 goals or you accept that there was never that much offensive upside.

Because Tkachuk and Backlund are pretty damned good linemates.

you're sleeping on frolik. 5 times he's scored 40 or more points. The difference in career points per game between Frolik and Backlund is .05

He started his career with back to back 21 goal seasons, he's always been a better goal scorer than Bennett.

Bennett played something like 23 games with Tkachuk and Backlund last year and scored I think 5 goals. Someone look that up.

It is not easy to score 20 goals, which is why he has yet to do it, even on Tkachuk and Backlund's wing.

The other, more important part of the equation is that are we trying to get Bennett to score more goals, are or we trying to get the Flames to win more games, because at this point those two might be mutually exclusive.

What I'm hoping for is a season where Bennett's shooting percentage explosion coincides with the Flames competitive window. Even if it's 2nd unit insane puckluck, an extra 10 goals from Bennett would be freakin' huge.

The Cobra · 10-07-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Lucic has had some down years but his career high is 62 points, and they've got him on their third line.

At this stage, I'm not those 62 points are particularly relevant. He is not a very good hockey player if you are judging by offensive skills.

bax · 10-07-2019, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I get what you're saying but comparing the flames to other underwhelming rosters and suggesting his point about the offensive depth isn't valid is proving his point, not yours.

To be compared to an elite squad you need an elite talent makeup and the flames are still missing an ingredient up front that would turn them into a team like the bruins.

Coyle has had some down years but his career high is 56 points, and they've got him on their third line.

I want the flames to have that kind of depth and obviously treliving does too or he wouldn't have been in on stone, Zucker and kadri in the last 6 months.

Look, I'm agreeing with you. I even said another top 6 player would do wonder's for this team, but calling the Flames forward group a dog's breakfast isn't fair either.

Our forward group last season contained 4 guys over 70 points, and 8 guys over 30 points. Bennett came close with 27. That is great offensive depth and far from being bad. For example St. Louis had 1 guy over 70 points and also had 8 guys over 30 points.

It's irrelevant what Coyle has done in the past because he was playing in a different situation. I can tell you he won't be getting 56 points if he plays on the third line all year.

Flash Walken · 10-07-2019, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bax

Look, I'm agreeing with you. I even said another top 6 player would do wonder's for this team, but calling the Flames forward group a a dog's breakfast isn't fair either.

Our forward group last season contained 4 guys over 70 points, and 8 guys over 30 points. Bennett came close with 27. That is great offensive depth and far from being bad. For example St. Louis had 1 guy over 70 points and and also 8 guys over 30 points.

It's irrelevant what Coyle has done in the past because he was playing in a different situation. I can tell you he won't be getting 56 points if he plays on the third line all year.

I think it does actually look pretty ugly after Tkachuk based on how Frolik has looked to start the year, how underwhelming Janko is and what Lucic looks to be so far.

Ryan is the only one in that group that looks like his is position is solidified. Other than him though, I get what the other poster is saying about a dog's breakfast, it just sort of looks there and in any number of different combinations it mostly just looks the same.

bax · 10-07-2019, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think it does actually look pretty ugly after Tkachuk based on how Frolik has looked to start the year, how underwhelming Janko is and what Lucic looks to be so far.

Ryan is the only one in that group that looks like his is position is solidified. Other than him though, I get what the other poster is saying about a dog's breakfast, it just sort of looks there and in any number of different combinations it mostly just looks the same.

Which is the same for the majority of the league. That was my point. The Flames aren't elite, but their forward group is still very good.

Textcritic · 10-07-2019, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That is one bad 2nd PP unit.

Do you really think so? I mean, it's a really bad top PP unit, but this is pretty typical of every single NHL team. Second power plays are all pretty much just like this.

Keselke · 10-07-2019, 03:30 PM

Surely this time Bennett will figure it out

MissTeeks · 10-07-2019, 03:33 PM

Ready for another round of Tkachuk vs Doughty?

The Cobra · 10-07-2019, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you really think so? I mean, it's a really bad top PP unit, but this is pretty typical of every single NHL team. Second power plays are all pretty much just like this.

There really isn't one particularly good effective offensive player on that unit, absent Brodie I guess.

Most good teams have something more there.

it shows that Calgary's strength is its first line and d-men.

It's depth of offensive forwards is quite poor.

Doc Hudson · 10-07-2019, 03:38 PM

Seriously, he is two years younger than Jankowski. I think folks are way way too impatient with him. I think he looks really good so far this year, and yes he will always have a tougher route because of where he slots in, as center with terrible wingers as an example, but I see a special player in him.

I would be ecstatic if he stuck on the second line, it would add a new dimension to that line.

Itse · 10-07-2019, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cobra

There really isn't one particularly good effective offensive player on that unit, absent Brodie I guess.

Most good teams have something more there.

it shows that Calgary's strength is its first line and d-men.

It's depth of offensive forwards is quite poor.

I think Brodie's offensive strengths are mostly in moving the puck up the ice. His great movement is really useful 5 on 5, but on the PP he is useless. He just makes a safe pass to one side or the other, and his shot would likely be completely harmless from the point even if he tried it. Having Brodie on the PP is kind of just 4 on 4 + offensive zone time.

I would switch Brodie for Mangiapane (and move Ryan where Brodie is while putting Mangiapane on the right side for one-timers.)

Temporary_User · 10-07-2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Ready for another round of Tkachuk vs Doughty?

People are really too afraid to start new threads here on CP

joejoe3 · 10-07-2019, 04:11 PM

Nice, the BBT line.

FlamesAddiction · 10-07-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itse

Whether or not that point needed to be made in public, I do think there was a point to be made.

Frolik ended the season with 16G and 18A despite his injury. Roughly 20+22 pace, which to me seems perfectly respectable considering he missed a good chunk of the season to an injury and the way he kept being bounced from his spot on the second line for players who did even less with those opportunities.

He played only a total of 4 minutes of PP all season. That's less PP time than guys like Stone, Fantenberg and Hathaway. Even Ryan Lomberg got more PP time relative to games played. James Neal got fed 135 minutes of PP time and famously did nothing with them. (Frolik didn't even get much PK time last season, so that's not an excuse.)

You can question whether his offensive chops are good enough for 2nd line duty, but I can see why Frolik felt like he wasn't treated fairly.

I think Frolik did fine last season and could have been utilized better. I am not against demoting him when he isn't performing well, but I wouldn't expect him to stay on the 4th line long. He is pretty critical to the forward depth and at least he can play up and down the lines.

FlamesAddiction · 10-07-2019, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Ready for another round of Tkachuk vs Doughty?

Haha. I can't wait to see Dough-boy all red faced like an angry toddler. The guy is such baby.

Strange Brew · 10-07-2019, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cobra

There really isn't one particularly good effective offensive player on that unit, absent Brodie I guess.

Most good teams have something more there.

it shows that Calgary's strength is its first line and d-men.

It's depth of offensive forwards is quite poor.

Yeah I agree, I don't know how you can say Ryan - Bennett - Lucic is an average 2nd PP forward group when not sure that is even an average 3rd line, much less thinking strictly offense.

That PP unit is going to have a hard, hard time gaining the zone and keeping possession.

foshizzle11 · 10-07-2019, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Oh we all believed last season and that turned out great.

That was a valuable learning experience for a playoff inexperienced group of players. The guy they brought in to help the team was a no-show all season.

The team can learn from that experience and improve.

We will just have to see I guess, but so far I am not worried about this team and doing worse than last year.